Aftermarket self-learning EFI controller?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 996
Likes: 13
From: Dallas TX
Aftermarket self-learning EFI controller?
I just bought an 85 auto coupe.
The engine has around 150k miles and still has good compression on all cylinders but I need to replace the freeze plugs and possibly the top end springs, seals, etc.
I plan on keeping the intake and heads and adding a moderate cam to push this into the low 300 HP range at the crank. However, the prospect of having to jack with EFI chips seems ... not fun.
Is there a sub-$1000 self-learning aftermarket EFI controller that will work with the existing intake, MAF, 02, etc sensors?
The engine has around 150k miles and still has good compression on all cylinders but I need to replace the freeze plugs and possibly the top end springs, seals, etc.
I plan on keeping the intake and heads and adding a moderate cam to push this into the low 300 HP range at the crank. However, the prospect of having to jack with EFI chips seems ... not fun.
Is there a sub-$1000 self-learning aftermarket EFI controller that will work with the existing intake, MAF, 02, etc sensors?
Pro
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 502
Likes: 37
From: Pine Barrens New Jersey
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 996
Likes: 13
From: Dallas TX
However, I was looking at the XFI engine management tool but it looked like I'd have to make my own harness. This looks like a better (and cheaper) solution.
Thanks!
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,372
Likes: 3,259
From: Hartford WI
Unless you are making severe mods every week, isn't the chip simply done? Do your mods, bring it to a dyno facility, strap it down, do the tuning and you are done till you do something drastic like heads and cams, etc. OTOH, it is getting harder to find people willing to tune and obsolete platform but once done, you shouldn't need to worry. At 300HP level, all it takes is a road trip to wherever it is and you can even drive there.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 996
Likes: 13
From: Dallas TX
Unless you are making severe mods every week, isn't the chip simply done? Do your mods, bring it to a dyno facility, strap it down, do the tuning and you are done till you do something drastic like heads and cams, etc. OTOH, it is getting harder to find people willing to tune and obsolete platform but once done, you shouldn't need to worry. At 300HP level, all it takes is a road trip to wherever it is and you can even drive there.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 996
Likes: 13
From: Dallas TX
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,372
Likes: 3,259
From: Hartford WI
I guess it's an ease of use kinda thing. The chip may be simple but I can't do it (or don't want to do it). That EFI kit self-tunes over a wide range of add-ons. I have another engine that I am installing a Sniper EFI on and reading through the install material it looks incredibly easy.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,372
Likes: 3,259
From: Hartford WI
If the motor is coming out, why not just freshen it up? Not sure how you are going to do it but if the engine is freshened up, it could probably go another 150K. Not sure how much work is going to be required to inspect and change the bearings.
2nd Gear
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
I understand your dilemma, dyno tuning is very expensive, 500-600 per session, make 1 change and go back for another session. Those self tuning EFI kits sound nice, able to handle mod after mod. After all you don't want to smoke your motor doing a dyno pull. I just made the change to injector size that the tuner guy suggested and now it barely runs, do you trailer it the tuner for more sessions? Which equals $$$$$$ or just use a kit that relies on the same wideband O2 as the tuner uses and save money in the long run
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,372
Likes: 3,259
From: Hartford WI
make 1 change and go back for another session. Those self tuning EFI kits sound nice, able to handle mod after mod.
After all you don't want to smoke your motor doing a dyno pull.
I just made the change to injector size that the tuner guy suggested and now it barely runs, do you trailer it the tuner for more sessions?
Which equals $$$$$$ or just use a kit that relies on the same wideband O2 as the tuner uses and save money in the long run
After all you don't want to smoke your motor doing a dyno pull.
I just made the change to injector size that the tuner guy suggested and now it barely runs, do you trailer it the tuner for more sessions?
Which equals $$$$$$ or just use a kit that relies on the same wideband O2 as the tuner uses and save money in the long run
Sure but what happens when you do a WOT? It can also smoke the motor. Does the self learning kit need experiences to learn? If so, you are going to have to do a few WOT runs or am I looking at this wrong?
What size to what size?
Again, only if you are constantly making changes. So do an intake, next week add headers, change injector size the week after that, the week after that you do heads and after that stroker, etc, etc, I agree. But if you do intakes and headers and do a tune and stop for a long while, it might not pay off.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,475
Likes: 565
From: Clearwater Florida
..... In my experience with self learning systems I would advise you to seriously consider spending a bit more ($1500-ish) on a Holley HP controller and harnesses to operate your current set-up ... TPI ? ... you won't look back .....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 111
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 762
Likes: 94
From: Airdrie Alberta
I'm not sure why FAST told you to use the XFI system. I'm running the Fast ez ls system on my car. The FAST wiring harness is awful, but it works.
My system doesn't use a MAF, it runs on speed/density. You could convert your engine over the 24X GM system. Seems like a waste of time if your gonna run the stock TPI intake to me.
Probably easier to find someone's old 350 core and rebuild it, unless you want to reuse the 85 factory block for some reason. It uses the old hydraulic lifters/iron heads.
You have to spend a bunch of money to bring it up the power level marginally for a SBC. For that reason you should just find a take out LS 6.0 or 6.2 engine.
My system doesn't use a MAF, it runs on speed/density. You could convert your engine over the 24X GM system. Seems like a waste of time if your gonna run the stock TPI intake to me.
Probably easier to find someone's old 350 core and rebuild it, unless you want to reuse the 85 factory block for some reason. It uses the old hydraulic lifters/iron heads.
You have to spend a bunch of money to bring it up the power level marginally for a SBC. For that reason you should just find a take out LS 6.0 or 6.2 engine.
Last edited by Mike Holmen; Apr 23, 2018 at 09:49 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,372
Likes: 3,259
From: Hartford WI
I'm not sure why FAST told you to use the XFI system. I'm running the Fast ez ls system on my car. The FAST wiring harness is awful, but it works.
My system doesn't use a MAF, it runs on speed/density. You could convert your engine over the 24X GM system. Seems like a waste of time if your gonna run the stock TPI intake to me.
Probably easier to find someone's old 350 core and rebuild it, unless you want to reuse the 85 factory block for some reason. It uses the old hydraulic lifters/iron heads.
You have to spend a bunch of money to bring it up the power level marginally for a SBC. For that reason you should just find a take out LS 6.0 or 6.2 engine.
My system doesn't use a MAF, it runs on speed/density. You could convert your engine over the 24X GM system. Seems like a waste of time if your gonna run the stock TPI intake to me.
Probably easier to find someone's old 350 core and rebuild it, unless you want to reuse the 85 factory block for some reason. It uses the old hydraulic lifters/iron heads.
You have to spend a bunch of money to bring it up the power level marginally for a SBC. For that reason you should just find a take out LS 6.0 or 6.2 engine.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 996
Likes: 13
From: Dallas TX
I'm not intimate with the Holley or FAST, I'm just curious as to what feature either provides that would make it a "must have" vs other systems?
I read up on other Holley system for my other Vette, the $999 SniperEFI TBI kit, and it's reeeealy easy. The computer is self contained, it's self learning other than a few simple parameters, it has a built-in fuel pressure regulator and the only external sensors that are required are the coolant temperature sensors and the exhaust O2 sensor.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 996
Likes: 13
From: Dallas TX
I'm not sure why FAST told you to use the XFI system. I'm running the Fast ez ls system on my car. The FAST wiring harness is awful, but it works.
My system doesn't use a MAF, it runs on speed/density. You could convert your engine over the 24X GM system. Seems like a waste of time if your gonna run the stock TPI intake to me.
Probably easier to find someone's old 350 core and rebuild it, unless you want to reuse the 85 factory block for some reason. It uses the old hydraulic lifters/iron heads.
You have to spend a bunch of money to bring it up the power level marginally for a SBC. For that reason you should just find a take out LS 6.0 or 6.2 engine.
My system doesn't use a MAF, it runs on speed/density. You could convert your engine over the 24X GM system. Seems like a waste of time if your gonna run the stock TPI intake to me.
Probably easier to find someone's old 350 core and rebuild it, unless you want to reuse the 85 factory block for some reason. It uses the old hydraulic lifters/iron heads.
You have to spend a bunch of money to bring it up the power level marginally for a SBC. For that reason you should just find a take out LS 6.0 or 6.2 engine.
With a C3 LS conversion, you have to:
1) Buy engine mount adapters
2) A transmission housing adapter or new transmission
3) Hydraulic clutch conversion or refab the Z bar setup
4) New oil pan
5) Upgraded radiator
6) Move the power steering pump (in my case)
7) Convert the speedo and tach
Is the C4 any better?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 111
It's a stock 85 with the original TPI with new injectors.
I'm not intimate with the Holley or FAST, I'm just curious as to what feature either provides that would make it a "must have" vs other systems?
I read up on other Holley system for my other Vette, the $999 SniperEFI TBI kit, and it's reeeealy easy. The computer is self contained, it's self learning other than a few simple parameters, it has a built-in fuel pressure regulator and the only external sensors that are required are the coolant temperature sensors and the exhaust O2 sensor.
I'm not intimate with the Holley or FAST, I'm just curious as to what feature either provides that would make it a "must have" vs other systems?
I read up on other Holley system for my other Vette, the $999 SniperEFI TBI kit, and it's reeeealy easy. The computer is self contained, it's self learning other than a few simple parameters, it has a built-in fuel pressure regulator and the only external sensors that are required are the coolant temperature sensors and the exhaust O2 sensor.
the sniper I believe is throttle body injection vs. multi point ( at least from what I have seen).
If that’s the only option for sniper you are looking at an intake swap as well and requires much less fuel pressure in most cases.