I cant get my pics to load. So will have to work with descriptions.

A set of 1998 (old style) brodix t1 heads. Massively ported (actually done fairly well according to my engine builder) the ceilings of the heads have been pretty hogged out and there are multiple holes through into the spring seat. Probably do to core shift. The porter just kept porting so that all the ports "matched" and then epoxied them.

I dont know how many hands they went through to get to the guy who i got them from or what the story is but he couldn't "get them to seal" and the motor ran poorly/smoked. So he tore it down.

The epoxy must have came loose. Looks like a very small peice may have slammed into the quench area of the head repeatedly. scoreing it up a little. Cost to weld and machine was quoted at $550 to him. He just stripped them and basically was throwing them out. They have been sitting for years.

Ok, so my plan was to pick up some aluminum washers slightly bigger than the spring seat and then machine them down so that they fit very snuggly and then epoxy them in place. Actually may make the holes a little bigger and have the washer protrude into the runner slightly.

Doing it this way hopefully accomplishes three things. Restore strength to the spring seat. Habe very little epoxy in the runner and almost no way for any to fall in and the aluminum can be ported back to match the other ports without risking new holes. (Shame to waste all that port work)



This is a challenge car, we can't weld it but can grind, the budget won't cover the welds. So this is my "free" solution and if successful will add a huge boost to my HP numbers. At lease three if not all of the helicoils (almost every bolt hole in these heads are coiled) on the intake side need to be redone as well. That seems funny becouse they appear to have never been milled? Thinking about it now though i bet they have been pulled off many times since 98 to replace the epoxy.

These heads have had a rough life.... But they are no joke and need to be saved!

 

What do the holes look like?

Can you drill them, tap them and plug them?

 

have somebody ''TIG'' weld the inside runners,do it right and 1 time only

 

I would suggest to look for a welder to see if they can be patched up. Once metal is heated up, holes may get larger. Then there will be the matter of cleaning up the port work lowering ceiling. Correcting heli-coils can be another PITA. Thrifty depends on where you live ( dod. NASA, aircraft manufacturering...etc.) area where highly certified welders and machinist are plentiful.

 

Most epoxy glue will not hold up to the thermal cycling and temperatures that Cylinder heads are exposed to. As mentioned earlier the proper method of repair would be to weld it up using a MIG /TIG welder. Up in Michigan there must be some good welders out there, look around and find somebody who really knows his welding. I would probably call Brodix and talk to them and see what they come up with. They have probably seen this before...

Good Luck and remember there are a lot of really nice cylinder heads out there and they are not that expensive (as long as it is not a Big Block)!
Best Regards,
Chris

 

I am just going to tell you straight out... those 90's era Track 1 heads are JUNK.

I ported many sets of them back then. I think still have the little aluminum template I made that showed me how much to cut out of the roof and how much epoxy to put in the floor....... As cast, the back wall of the valve bowl is stood up at almost a 90* angle and SSR is so fricken tall off the deck that you cant lower/widen it enough without hitting water to fix the turbulance problems and slow the air speed down.... The only thing you can do is raise the roof until you take out most of the spring seat and guide support.

Yes there are epoxys that will fix your problem.... "Splash Zone Z Spar A788". But it will only last so long. We would have to fix the epoxy every year in a drag engine and 2-3x a season in oval track engines.... back then it was just accepted that was the stuff you did in order to run upfront. Today far better cyl heads exist and you will be money ahead to buy it.... those Track 1s are just going to cost money to fix and cost wins when they give up at the wrong time.
Will

 

The epoxy will be very thin. More like glue between the heads and the washers and it will only be exposed to the inside of the runner about 1/92 of an inch around the pea sized hole.

No epoxy will fall in as the epoxy,s only purpose will be to "glue in" the aluminum washer.

The cost of the welding is worth more than the bare castings. There will be no fixing it right, i thought i made that clear. If it was one weld, maybe. But not 5.

I believe my solution is good but i wanted some second opinions. Not to be castigated for trying to get it done with the parts and budget i have.

If anyone has any thoughts on how the proposed fix would function over time id be glad to hear it.

 

IMO, it expands and contracts at a different rate than the head, so it's asking for trouble on the street. You'll have more in gaskets, fluids, epoxy, time and headache when it fails than in getting it welded if those are the heads you want.

OTOH, you mentioned your friend has a machine shop and he's paying you in kind with work there. Did you see what Chad Speer did with those stock aluminum heads? It was a good improvement for not a lot of money. Sweat equity and all of that.

Maybe start over with something similar to what he was doing?

 

Challenge car? Grassroots 2019 car?

 

Yeah. Its hopefully headed to 2019.
I have a very nice set of dart pro 1. But they are valuable. These will have a value of about $75 out of my budget instead of $850 for the darts.... Its a no brainer. I can just epoxy them for the race. But im trying to get a little more use out of it than that.

IF the epoxy separates it is unlikely to fall in. It also will be unlikely to leak for a long LONG time as it wont just have to unstick from the repair, it will also have to un stick from multiple other places.

Once the repair is in and done, assuming that the layer of epoxy is only about a mil thick you should be able to pull out the repair apply a very small amount of epoxy and put it back together from the top and not have to pull the heads. Thats why i wanted to make sure to leave tbe washer big enough to stick into the runner from the top and then machine it to match. Re-repairing it from the top would seal it and only marginally effect the runner shape and flow.

These heads are basically throw away. I know this. I dont need to be told repeatedly.

I am building a car that will run low 11s out of a totaled car i bought for $1500 and only have $1500 to spend...

will raising the spring floor slightly have a big effect? Will the diferences in the two types of aluminum and epoxy make it very dificult to grind smooth?

 

IDK how these race parts will be evaluated within the challenge. This is a it can't fail situation in the different events, so you need to get them welded. You could try a Vo tech or trade school , some may only charge for materials. You could barter advertising space on car in exchange for welding.