C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

Building a sub-5s 0-60 L98

 
Old 04-08-2019, 10:42 AM
  #41  
Mike Holmen
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Yes I have installed a low miler (less than 50k on engine) junk yard engine for under $5k. All eight cylinders have more than 190 psi of compression. I have over 12000 miles on my swap and still going. Seen on ebay a few 6.0L short block engines with forged pistons/h-beam rods for $2500, you just need to look.

I don't have ac, but I don't need it where I live, I just remove the roof. My gauges work and so does my cruise. Why rebuild stuff that doesn't need to be rebuilt. The LQ9 is pretty stout engine to start with, has a lot of those fancy internal parts stock. The stock 317 heads will out flow most for those aftermarket head, and that a stock 317 head. If you need more buy LS3 stuff.

Yes if you want to spend more money you can, which I don't want to. I can bore out the LQ9 block and add a 4.125 stroker combo to get 428in, add cnc LS3/LS7 heads a big rattler cam. Probably make 600-700HP pretty easy, add some spray to 1000HP.
My car is a fun hiway cruiser not a street light racer, I have no reason to change that.

Krusty has a LQ9 swap in his car and its a pretty stout runner. Just saying it can be done. I like the idea of installing a hemi, hopefully a 6.4L
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:46 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
My gauges work and so does my cruise.
I've been following your thread with Pwnage. Lot of awesome stuff there. Krusty's drive through Mexico was great.

Is there a definitive guide for how C4/LS swappers are handling the dash, cruise, AC and related issues?

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Old 04-08-2019, 11:18 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Mike Holmen View Post
Yes I have installed a low miler (less than 50k on engine) junk yard engine for under $5k. All eight cylinders have more than 190 psi of compression. I have over 12000 miles on my swap and still going. Seen on ebay a few 6.0L short block engines with forged pistons/h-beam rods for $2500, you just need to look.

I don't have ac, but I don't need it where I live, I just remove the roof. My gauges work and so does my cruise. Why rebuild stuff that doesn't need to be rebuilt. The LQ9 is pretty stout engine to start with, has a lot of those fancy internal parts stock. The stock 317 heads will out flow most for those aftermarket head, and that a stock 317 head. If you need more buy LS3 stuff.

Yes if you want to spend more money you can, which I don't want to. I can bore out the LQ9 block and add a 4.125 stroker combo to get 428in, add cnc LS3/LS7 heads a big rattler cam. Probably make 600-700HP pretty easy, add some spray to 1000HP.
My car is a fun hiway cruiser not a street light racer, I have no reason to change that.


Krusty has a LQ9 swap in his car and its a pretty stout runner. Just saying it can be done. I like the idea of installing a hemi, hopefully a 6.4L
Your engine has about as many miles as my car... and I prefer to have everything working... especially the A/C, Guess I am married and when I take the wife out, having the top out and screwing up her hair isn't always acceptable. I would agree 50k miles isn't that many, but you also have no idea how that engine has been treated. While compression is important, did you inspect the journals and bearings? Why rebuild? So, once you have it all bolted in you know for sure.

Here is the big kicker. Some people just don't want what everyone else has, or has done. Get over it. The original poster wants to keep his car with a long runner TPI, end of story. LS anything doesn't help him reach HIS goals. I absolutely don't want an LS in my Corvette and it would be a stupid thing to do. I could sell mine and buy a C5, have an LS, and have money left over.

My goal if I go further with my Corvette will to make as much as I can without it looking more than a bolt on car. When you pop the hood and see an LS, that is out the window. Different strokes for different folks.

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Old 04-08-2019, 11:55 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by vader86 View Post
You will need pretty good tires, but new cars are more efficient at putting engine power to the ground.
Vader, you've said this twice now (Saw the same in another thread)...I don't "Get it". How does a newer car put engine power to the ground, "more efficiently"? And how does that translate on a time slip...especially in the 60'?
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:38 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
Vader, you've said this twice now (Saw the same in another thread)...I don't "Get it". How does a newer car put engine power to the ground, "more efficiently"? And how does that translate on a time slip...especially in the 60'?
Traction Control, new tire technology, and improved suspension geometry. Electronic traction control, or "Launch Modes", have improved leaps and bounds over ASR and having nothing.

I know for my Challenger, I can just put my foot straight to the floor and hang on - after engaging "Launch Mode". Not like my older cars where I have to launch at a certain RPM and roll into the throttle to regulate the torque output.

Last edited by KyleF; 04-08-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:11 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
Traction Control, new tire technology, and improved suspension geometry.
TC isn't going to out drive a GOOD driver. Old cars get new tire tech on each tire change interval. Show me the 60's. They're still all right around 2.0x....1992 or 2018.





Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
I have to launch at a certain RPM and roll into the throttle to regulate the torque output.
You mean....[gasp] you mean DRIVE the thing!?

What do you 60' in your Challenger?


.

Last edited by Tom400CFI; 04-08-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:50 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by confab View Post
I've been following your thread with Pwnage. Lot of awesome stuff there. Krusty's drive through Mexico was great.

Is there a definitive guide for how C4/LS swappers are handling the dash, cruise, AC and related issues?




FWIW I believe the early models are easier to convert than the LT1-4 and up.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:01 PM
  #48  
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Vader86, Question for you. I have a 1994, LE2 build, with all the required fixins' TPIS headers, true duals. Cam 228/234, .574, 110 LSA; 3000stall converter and 4:11 gears in a DANA 44. Traction is a REAL problem. Do you have suspension mods? What tires for street?
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:24 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 93 ragtop View Post


FWIW I believe the early models are easier to convert than the LT1-4 and up.
Cool! I've been accumulating parts to install the LS controls on mine, and I'm very interested how they deal with the dash, cruise, AC, etc.

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Old 04-08-2019, 02:25 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
TC isn't going to out drive a GOOD driver. Old cars get new tire tech on each tire change interval. Show me the 60's. They're still all right around 2.0x....1992 or 2018..
Formula 1 and many racing series use traction control. So, it must make good drivers better.

I don't believe everyone goes out and spends as much on tires at each tire change as what the factory tires cost on some of the newer Vettes. Doesn't happen, so no you do not get the latest and greatest at each tire change.

Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
You mean....[gasp] you mean DRIVE the thing!?
Well the technology wasn't specifically designed for racing, its more about safety... but ask your professional Fomula1 drivers. They use it and are the highest paid drivers in professional Motorsports. I would say they "DRIVE" the thing better than you. It must give them an advantage.

Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
What do you 60' in your Challenger?
.
Not a clue, it is my Daily driver and the only car I have it on. I don't take every car I own to a drag strip.


Technology is here and it is constantly evolving our cars. The 84 C4 was a better overall package from the factory than cars coming out in 1950 (Single cylinder master cylinders and all). Why would it be so hard to believe they would have evolved just as much another 34 years later.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:04 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
Formula 1 and many racing series use traction control. So, it must make good drivers better.
Someone else used that anecdotal example too, in a recent thread. Exact same example. Weird. Problem with that example though Kyle is, racing systems are nothing like OEM systems on street cars. They're tunable/configurable for starters. They're also tune for....racing. Not the average duff who can barely handle a car (liability). But, assuming you're right that "since F1 uses it, it must be better"....show me the 60's. Prove it. Show me a car that 60's meaningfully better with TC than a great driver will go in the same car.


Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
I don't believe everyone goes out and spends as much on tires at each tire change as what the factory tires cost on some of the newer Vettes. Doesn't happen, so no you do not get the latest and greatest at each tire change.
Sweet. So when the new car's tires wear out (likely in <10k miles if we're talking about tires that will make a difference in drag launches), then the owner won't spends as much on tires at each tire change as what the factory tires cost right? So the "Efficiency of putting power in a newer car", then goes away?


Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
I don't take every car I own to a drag strip.
Take it to the strip. It's fun. You can strip a Daily....I do. I've even drag tracked my Pick up truck. PLUS then you'll have actual, objective data to back up the point that you're failing to make, rather than just guessing...then arguing about it. I've ran later model cars at the strip and I can tell you from that experience: I can do better w/the junk turned off. Not a little better...a LOT better.


Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
Technology is here and it is constantly evolving our cars. Why would it be so hard to believe they would have evolved just as much another 34 years later.
Is that what we're talking about here? Did someone say that cars haven't evolved? I didn't. I said that they don't put power down "more efficiently", and if they do, show me how. Show me the 60's. Otherwise, you're just arguing to argue, pulling up unrelated anecdotal evidence to support your inexperienced case. Show me the 60's.




.

Last edited by Tom400CFI; 04-08-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:46 PM
  #52  
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I really wonder how the "active" stuff is going to fare in a few years?

Sounds like an expensive nightmare to keep up on.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:02 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
Someone else used that anecdotal example too, in a recent thread. Exact same example. Weird. .
Not weird, its truth and you just troll around trying to argue.


Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
Problem with that example though Kyle is, racing systems are nothing like OEM systems on street cars. They're tunable/configurable for starters. They're also tune for....racing. Not the average duff who can barely handle a car (liability).
Well no crap, so is a lot of other features on their race cars that they take control over that is not available for the owner of a production car to just manipulate. Production cars rarely come with adjustable suspensions, but those that do (Cough - Corvette) perform very differently in different situations at a flick of a switch. Imagine that... but that didn't carry over from racing at all


Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
But, assuming you're right that "since F1 uses it, it must be better"....show me the 60's. Prove it. Show me a car that 60's meaningfully better with TC than a great driver will go in the same car.
Here is C&D with professional drivers that are better than YOU, and here are 3 examples Spoiler, they perform better with Launch Control.

Launch Control Vs. Humans

Maybe this one is more important for you since you can't use yours - How to Use Launch Control
"Skeptics had a field day with the idea that a computer could make you drive better, but over and over again it was proven that launch control works incredibly well in a stock vehicle"


Then this one right here too....
"So what is the true purpose of launch control? In my opinion, it is to help manufacturers create better 0 to 60 mph times. Having the ECU do the job is faster and will allow the car to shift at the perfect rpm. This allows manufacturers to report lower 0 to 60 mph times and allows more Cars & Coffee stat bragging on the part of the consumer."

Seems like a lot of people like to poke fun at it, but they can't beat it.

Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
Sweet. So when the new car's tires wear out (likely in <10k miles if we're talking about tires that will make a difference in drag launches), then the owner won't spends as much on tires at each tire change as what the factory tires cost right? So the "Efficiency of putting power in a newer car", then goes away?
Why, yes... a portion of it would. Yes there are cheap tires out there and I see nice cars with off brand tires... yes when you change tires capabilities of the car changes... it is the only thing that actually contacts pavement. Why would you even try to argue this?


Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
Take it to the strip. It's fun. You can strip a Daily....I do. I've even drag tracked my Pick up truck. PLUS then you'll have actual, objective data to back up the point that you're failing to make, rather than just guessing...then arguing about it. I've ran later model cars at the strip and I can tell you from that experience: I can do better w/the junk turned off. Not a little better...a LOT better.
Well as you can see above... there is objective data out there that proves you are wrong. You lack of performance is probably a lack of understanding of how to set it up or just a lack of skill. As they say.. Get Good. I will do with my cars as I please. I have no need or desire to do anything with my car to prove anything to a slithering internet troll like you. There is Google, I suggest you use it. There are many articles, press releases, books, and other news about how racing technology ends up in production cars, I suggest you read them.


Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
Is that what we're talking about here? Did someone say that cars haven't evolved? I didn't. I said that they don't put power down "more efficiently", and if they do, show me how. Show me the 60's. Otherwise, you're just arguing to argue, pulling up unrelated anecdotal evidence to support your inexperienced case. Show me the 60's.
.
Um, yes... you claiming today's cars aren't more efficient at anything is saying just that, maybe you don't realize what you say or think before you speak. Again, the data is out there. You can go argue with magazine publishers.

Last edited by KyleF; 04-08-2019 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:20 PM
  #54  
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Kyle, show me some 60's times, would you? You say the data is out there, and you're right, it is. I see it every time *I* go to the track. Do you? Show me. What are C7's 60 footing? Otherwise, quit shitting on the forum.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:34 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by KyleF View Post
Here is C&D with professional drivers that are better than YOU, and here are 3 examples Spoiler, they perform better with Launch Control.

Launch Control Vs. Humans
Here's the problem with your ignorance, Kyle: I CAN drive better than C&D's professional drivers! :LOL:

Where do you get off claiming their skill vs. mine? What knowledge do you have of their driver's skill? What do you know about mine? Kyle. I've driven at least two cars, as fast or faster at the drag track, than C&D has done, in those same two cars. And I've done it at high elevation!

Look, HERE is the only stat I can find for C&D of an LT1, which is a '95 (mine is a '92). Just over 1/2 way down: "In our recent test of the '95 Corvette LT1, the car ran to 60 mph in 5.1 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 13.7 seconds at 103 mph." Not C&D, but R&T's "professional drivers", you know...another "data from the magazines" that you seem to like, they ran [email protected] with a '92.

Kyle, I've gone 13.75 @ 102 at 4500' on a 7000' DA. I"ve gone 13.5'[email protected] at 2200' (Vegas) on a 6000' DA, in my stock, 175k mile, '92.

Who's a better driver? I am.


Show us the 60's Kyle. What are "modern, efficient at putting power down" late 'Vettes 60 footing?

Last edited by Tom400CFI; 04-08-2019 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:39 PM
  #56  
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Here Kyle....I'll do the work for you:

I've cut a best of 1.9 60' time with my '92. This was in Vegas; the 2200'/6000' DA, on a 100*F day. Not ideal conditions. Bridgestone RE760 Sport tires. Nothing special there. As you say, probably not as much $$ "as what the factory tires cost on some of the newer Vettes" Right?

THIS is the fastest manual trans pass with a slip I can find for a C7. He too, laid down a 1.9 60' time. Pretty damn good on stock tires. That guy can drive.

Tell me this; This C7 has OVER 130 more tq than my car. OVER 150 more hp. Similar gearing. He's on a -37' DA! In what way, is that newer car "more efficient at putting engine power to the ground"? You'll have to explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old, b/c I'm not getting it. If a 300hp/330 tq car 60's the same as a 455hp/460tq car...isn't the 300 horse car.... "more efficient at putting engine power to the ground" This has been a Closer Look! ba-da---boom!


.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:57 PM
  #57  
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Straight to the point, if you need traction control to drive a new car you are not a driver! The c4 can 60 ft with the best of them, just use your right foot and feather the throttle. I have run a 1.48 60 ft with a completely stock suspension with drag radials and a 1.8 60 ft with stock street tires and tpi.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:58 PM
  #58  
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You ain't putting it down any better, the computer is keeping you close to the limit of traction. People seem to confuse better with limited variability. For the average guy, leave it on. For a guy that knows how to drive, you're going to be better with it off. You shut it off in a c6 or c7, it'll light the tires up from a standstill just as easy (about, suspension geometry is marginally improved over the last 30 or so years) as pretty much any car from 30 years ago with the same power...

Now I'm going back to gamma phi modeling. Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:16 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by confab View Post
I really wonder how the "active" stuff is going to fare in a few years?

Sounds like an expensive nightmare to keep up on.
x2 Aging complicated electronics, no thanks. I refuse to spend a bundle on shocks, rotors, tires or an intermittent CEL light. There will come a time when noones tuning the C5-up cant repair them etc.
The C5s are getting real cheap real fast (not just the high mile beaters either)
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:34 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette View Post
x2 Aging complicated electronics, no thanks. I refuse to spend a bundle on shocks, rotors, tires or an intermittent CEL light. There will come a time when noones tuning the C5-up cant repair them etc.
The C5s are getting real cheap real fast (not just the high mile beaters either)
Yeah, I can see a cottage industry in defeating this stuff at some point.
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