I have a 1990 and i went to start it on sat. Dead battery. So i jumped it off with a jump box. Started fine let it run for a while. I was changing my bulbs over to leds. During the process i started the car 5 to 6 times. Then the last time boom dead battery and really weird instrument panel flashing when turn signals were engaged. So put battery on battery tender for 24hours. Full charge. I put it back in car same thing nothing. Flashing almost like the hazards were on when i tried the turn signal. When i tried to start the car the brake light is aluminated and absolutely no cranking, if i press the brake the door open chime rings? I took the battery off and it was dead again after only 5 minutes of being on. The car was running great and no problems. Could switching lights actually do this or is there something in the Vats with the ignition key which is loose and doesn’t lock. Thank you

 

Have your battery tested. How old is it?

 

New battery. Cheap one tho. It was in the car when i bought it. Have only owned the car 5 months. The battery was fully charged when i tried to start it yesterday.

 

Did you load test it?

 

No i didn’t

 

Go to the Autozone and have them load test and check alternator function. I don't think it is the starter and I'm sure it will not be VATS

 

Thanks man 👍

 

It was the ignition. I put in the gator vats bypass and the car fired right up.

 

So what caused the battery drain?

 

Hello there jjmichigan81!

Those darn VAT's are a real nuisance. On my 1988 I got rid of the key resistor chip but still need to neutralize the VATS so it doesn't leave me high and dry.

The average car battery is between 50 and 90 amp hours in capacity. Forget all the cold starting cranking amps and all that bologna. There is virtually no way a Battery Tender (1 amp or less typically) could charge a car battery fully in less than 4-5 days. Disconnect battery and charge using a 10 amp charger for 10 hours and that might fill your battery up.

When ever you have a no-start situation be sure to start with a fully charged battery with clean connections. Batteries need to be maintained and serviced at least once a year. Never take the electrolyte for granted, Flooded Lead Acid batteries USE water. The newer maintenance free batteries are basically just harder to access the electrolyte on. (This does not apply to non Flooded Lead Acid batteries like AGM or Lithium Ion batteries that we are starting to see making their way into the automobile market.) I keep a gallon or two of distilled water in my shop for that purpose. When a battery is low on electrolyte it can be damaged causing it to loose some of it's capacity. It is really important to check the electrolyte before doing a complete charge of the battery. Most automobiles can't get their battery fully charged so it is important to help it once in a while. I have a specialized battery charger that goes through 4 stages to completely fill the battery up to maximum capacity. Battery tenders are okay but not the best solution with a Car used in the warmer weather. The very best thing of course would be to drive the car a couple miles and put it back. Battery tenders can frequently cause the electrolyte to get stratified which also leads to capacity loss in the battery. The electrolyte can be stronger and more corrosive than normal in the parts of the battery. This is why we like to charge a battery until it starts "Gassing" where the hydrogen is escaping from the cell.

I remove my Corvette batteries and have them on a bench in a heated garage during the winter months. They get serviced, charged and stored where they will be charged once a week for a few hours to top them off. Then I clean the terminals and re-inspect the electrolyte and charge it before it goes back into my Corvette.

Best regards,
Chris

P.S. Be sure to read the fine print when using a Battery Tender as I had one that put out 1 amp continuously 24 hours a day and it dried out a "brand new" Interstate in just a couple months. (Be sure to buy one that regulates the charge and stops charging when full.)

 

Interesting. I don't seem to have had that with 2 VATS equipped cars. Bad batteries, yes. Bad alternator or two, sure. 1 time there was some parasitic drain from some short even but not a VATS drain.

As to batteries, I do have a decent charger that does shut off so I can put it in a corner of the garage if it were a motorcycle or RV battery or other powersport ones. Attached but not heated garage. Don't think I have had a decent battery last less than 4 years without topping off the water. YMMV

 

Hello aklim!

VATS is like the ECM, whenever people have a problem they don't understand they blame it on the ECM or as in this case the VATS. People frequently replace their ECM because they are not sure what is wrong with their engine.

Batteries are a strange creature, here in the United States we are not offered the same batteries used in some German cars. You might be familiar with VARTA batteries from Germany. They make their batteries a bit differently than we do here in the U.S..

We like to use Antimony in the lead plates to make the plate harder and last longer. The problem is that Antimony is poison to a battery and literally the amount of Antimony used determines the longevity of the battery. It does make the battery last longer but it also makes the battery very thirsty and uses a lot of water. The amount of Antimony is a closely guarded secret and can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer but most domestic manufacturers use antimony in their automobile batteries.

VARTA in Germany uses Selenium in place of the Antimony. The Selenium allows the plates to be hard and last a long time without killing the battery over time. This is a huge benefit but it does cost more to produce batteries this way because of the cost of the Selenium. Antimony is cheaper and readily available so we use it here. Varta may not be using it outside of their own market in Germany but their Lead Selenium batteries are far better than the Lead Antimony we use over here. I had a VW that came with a new Varta Lead Selenium battery from the factory in Germany. I forget exactly the age but that battery was at least 13 years old when I replaced it for the first time since the car was new.

Batteries are a mysterious creature and how they work is known to a few chemists here and there. I do know however that they will last longer with some TLC and basic maintenance. I have had the pleasure of installing batteries in the Desert near the Saudi Empty Quarter. Each 2 volt cell held over 5 gallons of electrolyte and I had to learn to help batteries last longer even in this inhospitable area of the world. I did it, they lasted a lot longer than the manufacturer said they would so we had a "Happy Customer" as the batteries were ~$25k a set and there were five sets. I have spent years testing batteries to understand "how they work" and to find the best product for our customers. I offended some DOE people when I told them Batteries are Like Women, "Each one is different" even if they come from the same company and same production line. No two batteries are the same, each will have special ways of making it last longer using a "specific to the product" charging algorithm that I helped create.

Today if you go to a Advance Auto you have a choice of Flooded Lead Acid battery (Old Faithful) or the "Maintenance free" FLA batteries which have a sticker over the access holes on the battery keeping people from adding water. The Optima series batteries are nice but they require a specialized charging system to ensure they last a long time. They are very susceptible to noise coming in from the charging system, if your alternator is letting some AC ripple through the the Optima is in trouble. I had one in my Cadillac STS and it finally gave up and blew greenish smoke out of the sides of the cell. I am not doing that again.... They will work and last in a clean power environment where the power charging the battery is free of any AC ripple or other noise. To properly charge an Optima you need to treat it differently than you do the FLA batteries we grew up with.

Absorbed Glass Mat batteries are becoming more available for automobile applications. These too require specialized charging or they will never last very long. If charged at a high rate the battery will attempt to gas which opens the vent and releases some of the electrolyte which can not be replaced with a spring loaded vent. AGM batteries are great for vehicles that sit for extended times as their self-discharge is a fraction of the FLA batteries.

I read someplace that 1 out every four breakdowns is associated with the Battery in a car. I guess I will continue to take good care of my batteries. "If you take care of your Battery, It will take care of you!"

Best regards,
Chris
P.S. What the heck does YMMV mean? I haven't heard that one before....

 

Good reading.

YMMV is an abbreviation for “Your Mileage May Vary.” Basically, it means one person's experience with a product may be different from another's.