I would like to preemptively look at the waveforms on my car so when something goes wrong I dont have to fumble around and learn how to do it in order to diagnose. Especially since I have an optispark and I read thread after thread where people do a hail mary and replace the opti without being able to confirm its bad, that is a BIG job to take a guess at. Id also like to understand what is normal with injectors and O2 sensors. Id like to have a scope also for some electronics jobs I am working on.

My question is can a standard oscilloscope do the same job as an automotive scope? I cant see why not with the right probe since its simple time vs voltage.

Also what frequency range.. 20mhz scopes especially the old boat anchor types are dirt cheap on ebay.. even older 100mhz are cheap.. I think a digital scope would be an advantage though so one can scroll through time. One can pickup a brand new 70mhz scope for less than $300.

Can anyone direct me on this?

 

You will be better served with an automotive DSO. I have a Snap On Vantage Pro but the scope feature is not that great. I picked up a Picoscope which is the best scope you can get your hands on and I'm very happy. You can get a 2 channel for around $850.00 and a 4 channel for around $1500.00. The added components...high and low amp clamp, inductive and capacitive probes, in cylinder pressure transducer are extra. I pick up most of my diagnostic equipment here https://www.autonerdz.com/
You can pick up a 1 channel DSO called the "U Scope" from AES Wave.com for about $400.00 !!

 

I have a HP 100mhz scope dual trace with expansion that takes care of my home and auto needs. I have been using CRT since I was 10 years old (decades) and for home use it works for me. I have waveforms of opti, ICM and coil. I don’t know if you can scope a O2 sensor without changing the original waveform. For that I use a scanner (Tech 1).

As an engineer I have used digital scopes and lots of other stuff. There nice but not necessary for my home use as I could not use some of the special features as you would do in an engineering environment. I just want to see if something is there and close to accurate.

I can't compare the automotive scopes as I don’t have enough hands on experience to make a fair comparison. I'm sure there are great for the guys that use them day to day and are dedicated for automotive use.

 

What does an automotive scope do that a standard scope does not?

 

Thanks.. I suspected a standard scope would be fine. Hantek makes a cheap 8 channel for automotive but I cant figure out why its so cheap.. but there has to be a reason.

My only issues is size.. I really dont want a full size crt from the 80's.. was thinking a mid size HP scope.. like the one you probably have.. they can be picked up 2 ch 100mhz for well under $200 on ebay.

Unless someone can tell me what I cannot do with a standard scope that is the route I will go. I realize a 8 ch would be nice but thats about it.. I dont need to see them all at once.

I can see where I will need a current clamp to do some things.. a cyl contribution test would be super cool to have..

 

This guy explains how to use the Hantek really well..

 

Found this quote on a forum, and it confirms what I suspected:
" I have Hantek portable scope with AVO meter. It's a regular scope for electronics, there are no special routines or functions for auto-diagnostics and using it requires knowledge about how triggering works and scopes in general. I have lent it to some mechanic friends and they just can't use it. Menus and such could be better and the user interface is a bit frustrating but if you know -how- it's a very decent scope with potential use far outside of the automotive field.

I have never come across the others you mention but from what I have seen online it seems to me something directed towards automotive use with pre-selected triggering settings for "automotive" is much more user friendly and therefore useful for most people"

I can find my way around an oscilloscope.. its pretty simple. Time, voltage and scaling. nothing to it.
I guess the Hantek does not have AC coupling but one can change that with a capacitor in series with the input. Cap chops off all DC..

 

The Pico is a lap top Windows based program. Very easy to set up and you tell it what you want to look at...injector current, secondary ignition...etc...and it will set up the voltage and time base for you and off you go...you can download the software from their website and play around with it for free !!...I have a 29 inch monitor on my diagnostic cart and put the screen up on that...very easy to see !!....video enclosed !!...also has a part 2.

 

Im familiar.. In my view the Pico is way over priced for what you get.

I dont need to click on "injector test" to setup an injector test on a scope. I guess if you dont want to learn a little then a icon based system is worth the money.

For that kind of money you can have a modern all in one unit that does much more and you dont have your laptop tethered to it.

The Hantek I mentioned is also a laptop based system but 1/4 the price. Its only 20Mhz frequency (all you need for most automotive unless you want to do logic analysis)..

Rigol and Hantek have very nice digital units that are small and can be used for any home electronics project for will under $300. The Pico STARTS at around $480 I believe. I just dont know why youd want a automotive scope that has many limitations when you can buy a standard scope for less.. so far I cannot find a thing a std scope cannot do except in the case of the 8 channel hantek which is just a luxury to see all 8 cyl at once.. I just dont see why anyone would need that and every single youtube video I see on the unit 2 channels are used.

Actually if you read about the Hantek it can be used for electronic work other than cars.. but it doesnt even have an ac coupler and doesnt go above 20mhz. scopes from the 80's went to 20mhz. Picos similar model goes only to 25mhz and is like I said about $460-$480. also the Pico sampling is extremely poor.. sampling at a maximum of 500MSa/s, here is a Hantek that is 70mhz and 1GSa/s Real Time sample rate. this gives you MUCH more resolution.. you could easily miss something on the Pico.

AND it can be hacked to go to 200mhz (im sure resolution will suffer.

I like an all in one unit because I know I wont use it often and I can put it away and if I need it I can pull it out, turn it on and its all there. I dont have to worry about whatever laptop I have at the time and whether they kept up with the OS releases whether it be Linux, Android or Windows. Just boom, its there at a moments notice. Kinda like that specialty tool you bought and use once every 5 yrs but when you need it you smile from ear to ear.

 

Dude, in your initial post you didn't say you know how to use a scope and don't need instruction of the setup of various sensors...then buy what you feel you need, want, and can afford !!...the "automotive" (they make others) 2 channel Pico like I said runs around $850.00... my sample rate is fast enough...I'm not troubleshooting a super computer !!...really don't see any of the auto industry diag guys lugging around a 50 pound Hantek scope...LOL !!!...Oh, with the money you save get yourself or make a pressure transducer for "in cylinder" pressure analysis !!

 

Correct, I did not say I knew how to use a scope, my question was is there anything an automotive scope can do that a std scope cannot, Im trying to figure out why people are spending silly money on scopes that have less capability then a std scope. I dont want to miss something.

Sample rate has nothing to do with a super computer it has to do with at what resolution you are seeing the wave form. If you have a small sample rate you are seeing a low resolution average of a wave form and not the entire thing. this can be super critical when looking at injectors. Im not an auto shop, if I were I would want a small rugged scope that has little icons for basic functions. So I get why pros dont want to bother with a std scope.

Not sure whats up with the dude comment. I think I asked a valid question and provided some of my research. Sorry if it offended you.

If you spent $850 on Pico you must have a super high sample rate which is why you are happy with it. Im not spending $850 because Im just a garage hack.

 

I have an analog electronics scope. I was able to verify that I had both high res and low res signals with it. But a digital scope would be better as could freeze the waveform.

 

Nice.. Since I have 3 o2 sensors considering I find them all good it would pay for the scope. Not to mention my time to replace them all. So easy to do on a scope its crazy.

 

No offense taken and none towards you !!...just used the supercomputer analogy to make a point...I'm pretty well versed in DSO testing and have been for a while...all I can tell you is the Picoscope is the "gold standard" for automotive DSO testing for the price and what it offers and it's perfect for me !!...and you are NOT going to 'miss" anything !!...if there is a glitch or dropout in a TPS signal for instance you'll see it...these are automotive circuits we're talking about...so in closing do your research and good luck in your shopping !!

 

These might be of interest to you.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-pattern.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-patterns.html

 

The "automotive oscilloscope aka Sun Scope" is designed for primary and secondary ignition diagnosis. Today mostly to look for open wires and ignition drop out. Today pretty much obsolete. IMO you want a dual trace tablet size 8 to 10 inch screen. There is an app available. Allen made " Smart Scopes" 30 years ago one of the features was dual trace scope. Allen had a book with patterns and alot of how to information. The books show up used book sites and eBay from time to time.

 

Thanks and noted a standard scope was used by one gentleman to do the same test. I have scope in my shopping cart now and just need to somehow justify it in my little brain.

 

I purchased a used analog scope on CR for $75. Has lots of *****.😉

 

Must be good

 

Admittedly Im attracted to all the *****, looks like a panel on 747.