1995 Headlight switch question
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 82
Likes: 5
From: Tallahassee Fl
1995 Headlight switch question
On my 1995 car the first position on the headlight switch will cause running lights to come one but also the headlights swivel up into position but NOT ON. Moving the the switch to the next/final notch the headlights will come ON. So I cannot turn on my running lights without the headlights swiveling up into position.
Question: is this correct? I'd like to be able to turn on my running lights without the headlights swiveling up into position.
Question: is this correct? I'd like to be able to turn on my running lights without the headlights swiveling up into position.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 316
Likes: 63
From: Peoria IL
My '96 doesn't act that way. The first switch detent gives you parking lights (and fogs if you want them) but the headlights stay parked. Second detent the headlights pop up and turn on. When you are shutting things off, the first detent (middle position of the switch) shuts off the headlights but they stay up and the parking lights stay on. Switch fully off, everything closes up. Sounds wrong to me unless 95 and 96 are different. I definitely expect things to operate as they do on mine.
Last edited by turtle96; Jan 15, 2020 at 01:00 PM.
Zen Vet Master Level VII
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,218
Likes: 1,174
From: Southlake, TX
You have an electrical issue. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the harness and clean both sides of the terminal. Dirty connections will cause havoc. If that does not solve the problem, you probably have a malfunction internal to the headlight motor. Swap motors and you are good.
These motors (and especially the gearing) wear out commonly.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,214
Likes: 101
From: Decatur, Alabama
I had this strange problem occur on my NCRS 95. I can't remember what is was, I remember it was not a typical problem nor in the FSM. It was either the battery had ran down and I had tried to crank it but it tried to turn over but the charge was too low which kicked some CCM codes. I either charged the battery and used my Tech1 to clear codes and the problem went away OR I had one headlamp motor that needed to be rebuilt (which I did on my own). Its been a while but one of the two fixed the exact same problem. I believe it was clearing the CCM, but I am positive one of the two was it, it happened back in 2015 .
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 82
Likes: 5
From: Tallahassee Fl
My '96 doesn't act that way. The first switch detent gives you parking lights (and fogs if you want them) but the headlights stay parked. Second detent the headlights pop up and turn on. When you are shutting things off, the first detent (middle position of the switch) shuts off the headlights but they stay up and the parking lights stay on. Switch fully off, everything closes up. Sounds wrong to me unless 95 and 96 are different. I definitely expect things to operate as they do on mine.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 82
Likes: 5
From: Tallahassee Fl
There are no differences between the headlight. They are essentially all the same for all years of c4.
You have an electrical issue. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the harness and clean both sides of the terminal. Dirty connections will cause havoc. If that does not solve the problem, you probably have a malfunction internal to the headlight motor. Swap motors and you are good.
These motors (and especially the gearing) wear out commonly.
You have an electrical issue. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the harness and clean both sides of the terminal. Dirty connections will cause havoc. If that does not solve the problem, you probably have a malfunction internal to the headlight motor. Swap motors and you are good.
These motors (and especially the gearing) wear out commonly.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,620
Likes: 206
From: Orlando FL
There are no differences between the headlight. They are essentially all the same for all years of c4.
You have an electrical issue. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the harness and clean both sides of the terminal. Dirty connections will cause havoc. If that does not solve the problem, you probably have a malfunction internal to the headlight motor. Swap motors and you are good.
These motors (and especially the gearing) wear out commonly.
You have an electrical issue. The first thing I'd do is disconnect the harness and clean both sides of the terminal. Dirty connections will cause havoc. If that does not solve the problem, you probably have a malfunction internal to the headlight motor. Swap motors and you are good.
These motors (and especially the gearing) wear out commonly.
I don’t think the motors are bad, there are just 2 wires and need to be driven by headlight module and the motors don't have a mind of their own.
It is possible the headlight module could be bad. But they need the input signal from the headlight switch to activate. It's not like the headlights are moving on their own without intervention without the headlight switch movement.
I would think then it's a good possibility the headlight switch is bad. I have not had mine out in more than 5 years but remember I had to take a socket and grind it down to a thinner diameter to get into the space for one of the bolts. It's a dedicated socket if I ever need it again.
You're going to need to figure out if a contact is closing before it should causing the headlights to go up. You probably need the FSM and understand the inputs to the headlight module that are needed to operate it.
Last edited by pcolt94; Jan 26, 2020 at 10:13 AM.
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Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 29
Likes: 4
From: UNITED KINGDOM
Hmmm, interesting thread... have you considered the possibility that some markets require daytime running lights, which means the headlights would be ON as well as the sidelights?
This is common here in UK with both Volvo & Saab ... I believe this is also the case with vettes sold new in Canada too, but stand to be corrected on that point...?
My 1990 C4 vert was first sold new in Europe, and i have the same issue with my lights, the first position, sidelights, also brings up the headlight pods, because they also have EXTRA sidelights fitted into
the Cibie headlight units..... I believe this was done from new,
as having amber front sidelights only is (theoretically) a no-no over here.
I have tried to figure out how to alter this, as i would LOVE to have just the sidelights on, with the front fogs as well, a friend with a 92 coupe does just this, which is normal on most all C4s.
Even getting at the light switch connector seems almost impossible,
i do not want to risk breaking 30yr old plastic lugs in trying to get access to the switch connector plug!
This is common here in UK with both Volvo & Saab ... I believe this is also the case with vettes sold new in Canada too, but stand to be corrected on that point...?
My 1990 C4 vert was first sold new in Europe, and i have the same issue with my lights, the first position, sidelights, also brings up the headlight pods, because they also have EXTRA sidelights fitted into
the Cibie headlight units..... I believe this was done from new,
as having amber front sidelights only is (theoretically) a no-no over here.
I have tried to figure out how to alter this, as i would LOVE to have just the sidelights on, with the front fogs as well, a friend with a 92 coupe does just this, which is normal on most all C4s.
Even getting at the light switch connector seems almost impossible,
i do not want to risk breaking 30yr old plastic lugs in trying to get access to the switch connector plug!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,620
Likes: 206
From: Orlando FL
Have you installed any LED bulbs in the lighting system?
Do the doors open in PARK LTS in both high and low beam positions? (If only one affects the doors, this is a clue as to where the stray power is coming from with LEDs).
Do FOG Lps on or off affect the unwanted operation?
There are two circuits to the module that tell it what to do with the doors:
The white wire is hot in OFF and tells the module to close the doors
The yellow wire is hot in HEADLIGHTS ON (this is the same circuit as the bulbs themselves) and tells the module to open the doors.
With no power on either wire (which occurs in PARK LPS), the doors do nothing. They won't open if they're closed, nor close if they are open, with no power on either wire. If they are moving and switch turned to PARK, they stop in mid flip, because there is no command to either open or close.
Turning the switch to PARK, removes the signal on the white wire to close. But there shouldn't be any power on the yellow wire in PARK LTS to open them. My guess is that there IS power on the yellow wire, and it may not be much, but it doesn't take much. Milliamps would be enough to trigger the module.
My guess is that there are LED headlights. That it only does it with dimmer switch in HIGH beam, and fog light switch ON.
The CCM has nothing to do with the headlight door operation.
Do the doors open in PARK LTS in both high and low beam positions? (If only one affects the doors, this is a clue as to where the stray power is coming from with LEDs).
Do FOG Lps on or off affect the unwanted operation?
There are two circuits to the module that tell it what to do with the doors:
The white wire is hot in OFF and tells the module to close the doors
The yellow wire is hot in HEADLIGHTS ON (this is the same circuit as the bulbs themselves) and tells the module to open the doors.
With no power on either wire (which occurs in PARK LPS), the doors do nothing. They won't open if they're closed, nor close if they are open, with no power on either wire. If they are moving and switch turned to PARK, they stop in mid flip, because there is no command to either open or close.
Turning the switch to PARK, removes the signal on the white wire to close. But there shouldn't be any power on the yellow wire in PARK LTS to open them. My guess is that there IS power on the yellow wire, and it may not be much, but it doesn't take much. Milliamps would be enough to trigger the module.
My guess is that there are LED headlights. That it only does it with dimmer switch in HIGH beam, and fog light switch ON.
The CCM has nothing to do with the headlight door operation.
The yellow wire on pin A of connector C2 makes the headlights go up.
I would back probe and monitor pin A to see if it receives 12 volts in the parking lights position. It should not have any voltage on it till you get to the headlight position. If 12 volts is on it in parking lights, then something sounds like there is a problem in the headlight switch. If it comes apart you may find something lose inside or just replace it if it checks defective.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 82
Likes: 5
From: Tallahassee Fl
Hey pcolt94, thanks for the info, very helpful, I'm going to put that info to work this weekend. Months ago I thought I had this problem solved, I cleaned the gray 5 wire connectors near each headlight and suddenly that solved the problem, but only until the next time I used the car, so I must dig deeper. I deeply appreciate the tech info. pcolt94, did you have to remove the switch assembly in order to test it/check wiring? If not then did you have to pull the instrument panel for complete access? I just had that out so I can go back in if I have to, it's all fresh memory right now. I think your suggestion that it's the switch is strong. Bones.
updates to come soon I hope.
updates to come soon I hope.
Last edited by boneymon; Oct 7, 2021 at 06:08 PM.