Looking at new heads
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 769
Likes: 22
From: California
FL Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor'13
Looking at new heads
Hey everyone,
Looking to get a new set of heads for the 89'. I know we have the more well-known AFR heads, but wanted to get ideas for what the best heads would be for what I wanna do and plan on doing. Car is also automatic if that helps or matters really.
The engine itself is pretty solid minus a little bit of blow-by at full throttle but nothing too crazy. Currently, for the engine, the only real mods are a cold air intake and I have a fairly new set of long tube headers with a true dual exhaust. Other than that its all stock or stock style parts such as bosch 3 fuel injectors and other routine maintenance parts.
Plans for the engine are to leave it a 350 for now but later on down the road rebuild it to a 383 or even 396 but that's more of a few years from now thing. I do plan on changing to a Mini Ram intake or even HSR intake fairly soon as well or maybe even at the same time as the heads and throwing a new cam in it too.
I guess the best question is what suggestions do yall have along with any other supporting stuff I should do at the same time as replacing the heads, intake, and cam. Thanks in advance as yall are the experts o this and I've learned so much already.
Looking to get a new set of heads for the 89'. I know we have the more well-known AFR heads, but wanted to get ideas for what the best heads would be for what I wanna do and plan on doing. Car is also automatic if that helps or matters really.
The engine itself is pretty solid minus a little bit of blow-by at full throttle but nothing too crazy. Currently, for the engine, the only real mods are a cold air intake and I have a fairly new set of long tube headers with a true dual exhaust. Other than that its all stock or stock style parts such as bosch 3 fuel injectors and other routine maintenance parts.
Plans for the engine are to leave it a 350 for now but later on down the road rebuild it to a 383 or even 396 but that's more of a few years from now thing. I do plan on changing to a Mini Ram intake or even HSR intake fairly soon as well or maybe even at the same time as the heads and throwing a new cam in it too.
I guess the best question is what suggestions do yall have along with any other supporting stuff I should do at the same time as replacing the heads, intake, and cam. Thanks in advance as yall are the experts o this and I've learned so much already.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Profile says Sacramento, how on earth are you going to pass smog with headers, minram etc?
If it was mine, 180 afrs, ported base, used aftermarket runners, small cam, tune and call it a day. Well maybe adapt some LT1 manifolds or Dougs EO shorties if you think you can get away with it. Adding a bigger crank ups the fun but a 350 with those mods will make a night and day difference
Rather than being punch up to 40 it will just make tire smoke....and every time you hit passing gear it will wanna run up past 5k
If it was mine, 180 afrs, ported base, used aftermarket runners, small cam, tune and call it a day. Well maybe adapt some LT1 manifolds or Dougs EO shorties if you think you can get away with it. Adding a bigger crank ups the fun but a 350 with those mods will make a night and day difference
Rather than being punch up to 40 it will just make tire smoke....and every time you hit passing gear it will wanna run up past 5k
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 769
Likes: 22
From: California
FL Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor'13
Profile says Sacramento, how on earth are you going to pass smog with headers, minram etc?
If it was mine, 180 afrs, ported base, used aftermarket runners, small cam, tune and call it a day. Well maybe adapt some LT1 manifolds or Dougs EO shorties if you think you can get away with it. Adding a bigger crank ups the fun but a 350 with those mods will make a night and day difference
Rather than being punch up to 40 it will just make tire smoke....and every time you hit passing gear it will wanna run up past 5k
If it was mine, 180 afrs, ported base, used aftermarket runners, small cam, tune and call it a day. Well maybe adapt some LT1 manifolds or Dougs EO shorties if you think you can get away with it. Adding a bigger crank ups the fun but a 350 with those mods will make a night and day difference
Rather than being punch up to 40 it will just make tire smoke....and every time you hit passing gear it will wanna run up past 5k
I have American racing long tubes on the car already and have for almost a year now and even that made a pretty noticeable difference
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 1,994
From: St. Charles MO
I would generally agree with what cv67 recommended for a street 350 that isn't going to get raced and the owner just wants a more fun and flexible motor. The intake change alone would make a huge difference on that. It's going to depend on your intended use and exactly how raucous you want the engine to be. I think the AFR 195 head might be the better choice for the stroker plan (size the cam to fit your intended uses), but you say that's some years down the road. One option might be get the 180s for now, and have them ported later if you do the stroker. I don't know how much room there is for porting those heads, so you'd want to check on that first.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 769
Likes: 22
From: California
FL Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor'13
It sounds like AFR’s might be the way to go. I have heard good things about them and it sounds like quality for them would be top notch so I’m gonna do some more research on them. Even with just a 350 I think 195’s would be a good option for a good base to build on for later. I’d rather buy things once than multiple times.
sounds like with those a mini-ram intake might be a better choice as well due to having to modify the HSR to fit or get a new hood. Which I’d rather not do.
The car is not a daily driver, despite how much I drive it, as I have 3 other vehicles. I want to keep it fairly streetable for when I do decide to take it to work or whatever, but I wanna be able to drive it or trailer it to the track and have even more fun.
sounds like with those a mini-ram intake might be a better choice as well due to having to modify the HSR to fit or get a new hood. Which I’d rather not do.
The car is not a daily driver, despite how much I drive it, as I have 3 other vehicles. I want to keep it fairly streetable for when I do decide to take it to work or whatever, but I wanna be able to drive it or trailer it to the track and have even more fun.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,775
Likes: 585
From: Texas
Buy your heads and cam from the same guy. A good supplier will make sure the cam matches the heads - correct intake vs exhaust duration, correct compression ratio, etc. The guy I bought my C5 from was running a fairly huge Comp cam (234/244 duration) on stock heads. I had the heads ported and milled to bump compression and while the car gained about 30 peak hp from the porting, the big change was that it had gained over 100 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm. This was due mainly to running the correct compression for that cam.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 769
Likes: 22
From: California
FL Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor'13
Buy your heads and cam from the same guy. A good supplier will make sure the cam matches the heads - correct intake vs exhaust duration, correct compression ratio, etc. The guy I bought my C5 from was running a fairly huge Comp cam (234/244 duration) on stock heads. I had the heads ported and milled to bump compression and while the car gained about 30 peak hp from the porting, the big change was that it had gained over 100 ft/lbs at 3500 rpm. This was due mainly to running the correct compression for that cam.
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Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
know with the short runner intakes you may find yourself regearing, or using a bigger converter to make it work right
Some convert an LT1 intake and work it over to save a few $
Some convert an LT1 intake and work it over to save a few $
Max G’s
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 79
From: Monroe OH
NCM Sinkhole Donor
First, you need to have an X pipe in the exhaust system and the closer to the front, the better or go back to 2 into 1 and you can get a 3" racing y pipe somewhere. True duals kill the scavenging of the cylinders. Heads- AFR 195 Competition Port are going to be the best flowing until you step up to a 427cu in engine. TPIS is a great place to get c your cam, MiniRam, and they can sale you AFR Heads too. So, you can get it all there. As you start getting the different components; you need to get a dyno tune to get the most out of your mods.
Transmission- if keeping the auto, get an AstroVan converter. I used custom built converters and kept blowing pumps. I had never had an issue with the Astro Van torque converter in my 700R4.
Good Luck
Transmission- if keeping the auto, get an AstroVan converter. I used custom built converters and kept blowing pumps. I had never had an issue with the Astro Van torque converter in my 700R4.
Good Luck
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,943
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
Any good 195cc head will be fine on a 350. You may want to get an idea what you're planning down the line however... 64cc heads now makes a pump gas friendly 396 more difficult, needs a decent dish plus less off the shelf pistons... its all things to consider. I'm running a 195 on mine and its just fine... Ideally you only want to do it once so buy what you need so you're ready...
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 769
Likes: 22
From: California
FL Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor'13
First, you need to have an X pipe in the exhaust system and the closer to the front, the better or go back to 2 into 1 and you can get a 3" racing y pipe somewhere. True duals kill the scavenging of the cylinders. Heads- AFR 195 Competition Port are going to be the best flowing until you step up to a 427cu in engine. TPIS is a great place to get c your cam, MiniRam, and they can sale you AFR Heads too. So, you can get it all there. As you start getting the different components; you need to get a dyno tune to get the most out of your mods.
Transmission- if keeping the auto, get an AstroVan converter. I used custom built converters and kept blowing pumps. I had never had an issue with the Astro Van torque converter in my 700R4.
Good Luck
Transmission- if keeping the auto, get an AstroVan converter. I used custom built converters and kept blowing pumps. I had never had an issue with the Astro Van torque converter in my 700R4.
Good Luck
I definitely plan on a dyno tune after I get it all put back together. I’d probably trailer it to a place about an hour away who does tuning on our older cars and I’ve heard some Pretty good things about about the guy. I don’t think after all that I’d be able to drive it an hour with a factory tune. Unless y’all think otherwise?
Any good 195cc head will be fine on a 350. You may want to get an idea what you're planning down the line however... 64cc heads now makes a pump gas friendly 396 more difficult, needs a decent dish plus less off the shelf pistons... its all things to consider. I'm running a 195 on mine and its just fine... Ideally you only want to do it once so buy what you need so you're ready...
can you explain more on how to make it a more pump gas friendly vehicle for later on? Can I get different cc chambers now that would work as well or is 64 the general go to. Or would it be easier when rebuilding to just get the proper dish positions? Later on I plan on all forged internals.
I want something strong that will last. I don’t wanna cheap out and have to do it again a year later
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 769
Likes: 22
From: California
FL Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor'13
I’ll do some more intake research as well. Maybe there’s some better options out there that are a straightforward fit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,943
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
I’ll trust ya on that lol from what I heard you’re quite the expert!
I did slightly lie on accident. It does have an x-pipe at the front within I’d say about 2-3 feet from the manifold.
I definitely plan on a dyno tune after I get it all put back together. I’d probably trailer it to a place about an hour away who does tuning on our older cars and I’ve heard some Pretty good things about about the guy. I don’t think after all that I’d be able to drive it an hour with a factory tune. Unless y’all think otherwise?
I know down the line that I wanna have the supporting parts now as much as possible. I wanna do it once and do it right. Sounds like 195’s are definitely the way to go.
can you explain more on how to make it a more pump gas friendly vehicle for later on? Can I get different cc chambers now that would work as well or is 64 the general go to. Or would it be easier when rebuilding to just get the proper dish positions? Later on I plan on all forged internals.
I want something strong that will last. I don’t wanna cheap out and have to do it again a year later
I did slightly lie on accident. It does have an x-pipe at the front within I’d say about 2-3 feet from the manifold.
I definitely plan on a dyno tune after I get it all put back together. I’d probably trailer it to a place about an hour away who does tuning on our older cars and I’ve heard some Pretty good things about about the guy. I don’t think after all that I’d be able to drive it an hour with a factory tune. Unless y’all think otherwise?
I know down the line that I wanna have the supporting parts now as much as possible. I wanna do it once and do it right. Sounds like 195’s are definitely the way to go.
can you explain more on how to make it a more pump gas friendly vehicle for later on? Can I get different cc chambers now that would work as well or is 64 the general go to. Or would it be easier when rebuilding to just get the proper dish positions? Later on I plan on all forged internals.
I want something strong that will last. I don’t wanna cheap out and have to do it again a year later
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 769
Likes: 22
From: California
FL Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor'13
if i knew for sure I was doing a 396... 70cc head now (or close to it) not worry about vomp now as much and then down the line for a 396 you would end up around 10.5:1 compression with a flat top. You can make a 64 work but then you have huge dish on the piston... ideally you want to compromise nkw so that you have what you need later. Still not great but to me is better than having chambers opened up or running huge dish...again. it depends.
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 52
Likes: 2
From: SW Nevada
I love AFR heads. Its hard to go wrong with them but, I can't say I love the price. Yeah, they're worth it but, I generally need to go the "bang for the buck" route. If that is you as well check these out https://www.skipwhiteperformance.com...b-272-a_92605/ They are available in straight plug or angle plug and 64cc or 68cc versions. They come with either flat tappet or roller springs your choice. The 68cc are about $40 more for the pair. Just an option.
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 52
Likes: 2
From: SW Nevada
To each his own. He mentioned "Plans for the engine are to leave it a 350 for now but later on down the road rebuild it to a 383 or even 396 but that's more of a few years from now thing." A set of heads that will support a high end 396 build are going to be less than optimal for a basically stock 350. Conversely a really good set of heads for a 350 won't get the job done on a high end 396. If that is the case a less expensive set of heads that will bring a basically stock 350 to life might be a viable option.
I would also point out that not all "eBay" heads are the same. Note: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AFR-1630-LS...AAAOSw3ItdZAR7 this set of AFR heads sold on eBay. My point here is just because something is sold on eBay doesn't necessarily mean it is off brand crap.
I have no objection to anyone choosing a "brand" name head. There are, however, quality heads available the don't have AFR or TFS or Edelbrock, etc.stamped on them. In the end the suggestion is simply an option. OP, I'd suggest you do your own research, which, I expect you would do anyway and not take anyone else's opinion as gospel.
That's all I'll be saying on the subject.
I would also point out that not all "eBay" heads are the same. Note: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AFR-1630-LS...AAAOSw3ItdZAR7 this set of AFR heads sold on eBay. My point here is just because something is sold on eBay doesn't necessarily mean it is off brand crap.
I have no objection to anyone choosing a "brand" name head. There are, however, quality heads available the don't have AFR or TFS or Edelbrock, etc.stamped on them. In the end the suggestion is simply an option. OP, I'd suggest you do your own research, which, I expect you would do anyway and not take anyone else's opinion as gospel.
That's all I'll be saying on the subject.
Last edited by sgltrk; Aug 20, 2020 at 06:24 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,775
Likes: 585
From: Texas
if i knew for sure I was doing a 396... 70cc head now (or close to it) not worry about vomp now as much and then down the line for a 396 you would end up around 10.5:1 compression with a flat top. You can make a 64 work but then you have huge dish on the piston... ideally you want to compromise nkw so that you have what you need later. Still not great but to me is better than having chambers opened up or running huge dish...again. it depends.
