Good morning guys. Long and short is this: I upgraded my stock 17si alternator to the later cs144 style a few months back. Haven't really gotten to drive it much since the wheels went off to be refinished pretty much right after that and I was having the fueling issue.

Fast forward to yesterday and I finally could drive the thing so I did. I really took advantage of that and lets just say most of my shifting was occurring north of 6500 rpms. I left my cousins last night hard. Grabbed a hard 1-2-3 to the point where he actually called me and asked how the hell I was able to get them off so quick. Anyway, about 20 seconds after the 3rd gear grab I come to a stop and the car is hunting. I look at the dash and voltage is floating around 11.6, same on the data stream on the ECM. I limped it home, killed the headlights and it floated up to 12 volts. Shut the car down and restarted and the dash readout for miles and MPG reset. It fired right off. Based on that information I am going to say if it is charging it is barely outputting any amperage. I popped the hood and as per usual C4s... everything is cooking hot. My feel test said the alternator case was probably around 180 degrees, my IR gun wouldn't get an accurate grab on it.

So now I'm going to ask... The pulley on the alternator is larger than the stock alternator was so it should spin slower to begin with. I read that the diameter of the stock crank pulley is ~7.25 inches and that the pulley on the alternator is about 2.22 inches... So using rpm in/ rpm out = D out / D in... I get with those numbers 21000+ rpms on the alternator at 6700 rpms... reading it would seem like the max recommended shaft speed on a cs144 is around 20000 rpms so I am going to assume that I torched the thing correct? Should I be looking for a larger alternator pulley like a 2.75 or something like that to lower shaft speed at WOT?

Edit: I should also add that the battery appears to have boiled over a bit after the drive. It was too dark to tell however.

Any input is much appreciated.

-Paul

 

Anythings possible but normally the CS144 is a tough piece. I personally have beat the crap out of cars that had them. I've had similar failures to what you're having though. Is this a parts store alternator? If it's a rebuilt one from a parts store take it back and get another one. I have had several CS144's come from the parts store faulty. But after taking them back and complaining I would get one that worked. If you can take it back and get another one see if the new one has the same issue. If it does then I would start playing with pulley size.

 

..... It is probably coincidental but I recently switched from a CS130 to a CS144 on my '87 ... all was well at first ... voltage was up at idle speed 13.8 vs 13.4 ... but after a few 7500rpm passes at the track , it would not charge at speeds under 3000rpm ... I was at the track and had tossed the CS130 into the truck "just in case" so I switched it back ... the CS130 has been as high as 8000 engine rpm without issue so I believe it will stay now .....

..... FYI ... long ago , I upgraded the alternator to battery wire to 6ga and still use the original OEM 10ga charging wire just to make sure the wiring was capable of handling the amperage being outputted by the CS130 .....

 

It's a new unit from delco actually. Their pro line. I've had no luck with local reman units which is why I spent a little more on the "new" one. I do still have my 17si which works just can't keep up with the new fans and lights all being on. I may just swap that back in because it just wouldn't die (after I rebuilt it) lol. It would overload and arc at max idle load though so it wasn't exactly happy... but still worked. Maybe I'll try having the 144 load tested at a parts place too just to see.

 

Yes. I've been meaning to add a 4awg jumper from the alternator straight to the battery I just haven't done it yet. I guess I really should run it down to the starter but... it worked fine. The 10 will carry the load at 10 feet with a 10% voltage drop just fine but it is a smart upgrade... actually about what I get... 13 volts idle max load which is about 10%. Like 75 or 80 amps iirc.

Suppose I could've blown a fusible link too but then... what's with the battery boil over? That has me curious.

 

I saw another post in here, read it and now its gone... So I'll try to respond what I can remember.

I did the brake booster today and was going to measure the pulleys to get a more accurate ratio but left my calipers on the tool box. so that didn't happen. The battery for sure boiled over so something happened to do that.

As far as an under drive pulley, While it is a good idea, that drive was a one in a million where I actually flogged it to death. Most of the time I shift 3-4k and leave it at that so realistically I am trying to avoid some of the other issues with under drive setups but it is looking like that may be the solution.

As far as max rpms on the alternator, it was from an old powermaster catalog. How accurate that is idk.

 

I don't care if it was new and the Virgin Mary handed it to me. I would really take it off and have it tested to make sure if I was experiencing these problems. Even brand new, it can break

 

Something for sure went wrong. Swapping to the old one tomorrow and exchanging this one for another new one under warranty.

 

I don't know if it is. Have it tested first. You'd look like a jackass if you tried that and they tested it and it came out good.

 

I'd agree with having it checked and IF you're told it's fine then 'back to the car' confirm the install 100% including all related components in the charging system, volt meter, connections, cables etc. It would be advised I'd think that a 'on car load test be done' to evaluate the entire system. I don't know that I'd have 100% confidence in any of the current ACD product on the market. ACD is just another 'parts jobber' now. I'd maybe ask 'CASH BACK' if possible through the vendor and buy something other than ACD.

Are you sure it's connected appropriately?

I saw also @ihatebarkingdogs post and have read similar many times. I do think you need to reevaluate the pulley ratios on the car and consider changing to ratios that are known to produce proper charging characteristics. There's considerable 'speculation' in your original post so maybe just rethink the entire project.

If your older works you're good to drive, have a conversation with the vendor and make changes. ACD may not offer anything but a replacement of a 'defective' - you'll soon be able to confirm maybe.

 

My cousin had pulled it for me while I was at work last night. He probed all the spots I told him to and then brought it for a load test. I'm still going to reconfirm his findings at another location to be sure but basically it would output something but any sort of amperage draw at all overcame it.

I honestly may rebuild it myself at this point depending on what becomes of testing the system with the old unit. This isn't the first 144 I've had to out in the car... the last one had excessive AC ripple from day 1. While it was nice having an alternator that would maintain a charged battery with all the changes in the electrical system. I do agree... may be time for a different direction and really fix the whole drive system in the process.

And yeah, I thought about it afterwards that ACD is just basically white box now. While I'd like to trust it, it would seem short of finding an OE box it's a crap shoot.

 

Stock unit is working fine. Going to have the new one tested again to make sure.

 

Refresh my memory. What again is the reason for the CS 144 swap? I think someone wanted to do it because they were putting a high drain stereo system.

 

Mine was because of the larger fan setup plus fuel pump the stock was marginal. It outputs what it is supposed to (load tested) Just isn't enough for what is on there now. The CS144 has a better idle output which is where my issue arose. As long as I don't drive at night, it'll keep up but the extra load from the lights with the fan on will make the low voltage light come on and stay on even moving then it slowly creeps up and recovers. It works I just knew I'd have to kill the HVAC if I got stuck in traffic at night in the summer.

 

My situation is different. I have LED lights and a Walbro pump. Even before the LED or HID lights, I didn't have alternator issues. Now I definitely should not have that with LED lights. Not sure about the HVAC fan but I have never had it give a low voltage warning which is why I was curious. OTOH, I do idle at 900. I will have to see if my alternator, a stock rebuild is marginal or not.

 

Your alternator is also a different style than mine is. It should be the cs130 but I'm not positive on that. It too has a better output curve than my stock unit. (Basically the same style as the 60s units is what mine is) My current radiator fan pulls something to the effect of 15 more amps than the oem one which is where the issue comes from. That plus headlights plus AC and blower on high is about tapping out what it does at idle. Around 1500 rpms is where it comes back and stays safe. The 144 has a much better idle stage and laughed at the load even though it was only rated for 15 more total amps at max.

I have set the idle higher in the past (850-900) but it makes the clutch unpleasant to drive at that idle speed. The 650-750 range is a lot more forgiving for whatever reason. I've tried playing with timing and fueling and it just never liked it there. Always bucked around. Little lower and it was fine.

 

I guess that makes sense

 

So @ihatebarkingdogs hit the nail on the head. (Photo below) I ordered an underdrive pulley set so I won't have to deal with this anymore. I did some research and came to the conclusion that a well setup underdrive set will still perform adequately for my needs.

Now the question is... do I be a cheap b*****d and just solder a jumper back on here or do I buy a new rotor and rebuild the thing so I know it's good?

 

I'll also add, the pulley ratio is right at 3. So that means when I shifted... I was spinning her right around 19k rpms on the shaft. So not good.

 

What's your relationship with the ACD jobber that sold you the product? If the jobber would refund I believe you do that. If they'll replace product as 'defect' then you do that. There are (as you mentioned) other options!!!