Has anyone here done this or a ZZ4 install Im looking swap out the L98 thought Id take a look at some crate engines. just trying to see if its a pretty easy swap or a PIA

 

ask corvette0096 he just did, threw a 219 in a zz4 & bolted on a superram, very easy combo to assemble. if your not into the research or know how to build a high end engine the crates are a decent alternitive as long as you don't plan on road racing them.

 

Guess thats not going to work out.... I want something I can race and that can take a beating :eek:

 

The bottom end is just fine for your car, its certainly not a race engine, but the production engine isnt either. They should both be able to take the same beating.

Just know that the advertised numbers with a zz4 crate motor are worthless with the TPI setup bolted onto it, it wont put out nearly the advertised power.

 

I was going to go with the super ram for that combo with the 430

 

Its a easy job. Your not going to get the number out of it with the stock tpi. If you have a auto get ready to freshen that up. Mine lasted a week. They say not to spin them over 5800rpm. That is fine with the cam and intake I am running. The power falls off around there. As for the motor it has not burned a drop of oil and no leaks.

 

if you do a superram combo it might live for you. they don't like to go over 6,000rpms and neither does a zz4. as far as the hotcam in the zz4, you could & see what happens, probably be pretty similar to the 219. the only thing i don't like about zz4's is the cost. i mean $3500 is a lot for a stock engine. if you wanted a mail order engine you could probably call the guy who built mine and have him duplicate it for around $4500-5000. you'd wind up with a vastly stronger bottom end and also make more HP. you'd need a roller block and some head castings however. for that matter you could spend a couple hundred more and have a 383, then drop $750 on pro action 180 castings. you would have one nasty SBC. up the cam to a comp 230/236 extreme grind and use a heavly ported super ram or miniram & make close to 500hp.

 

Get a hold of Ralph. he is running the 11's on a 85 stock bottom with the 219 cam and super ram. He focus on the heads. That is where you make your power. Oh and that is a 350cid :yesnod:

 

I have put about 30.000 miles on a ZZ4 without a problem.Everyone is right about the stock tpi, it chokes the engine.I got a good deal on a ported bigmouth intake, long tube runners and a ported plenum.After instaling the intake there was a noticable difference.The engined opened up in the 4000 to 5500 range.

 

I noticed you mentioned the ZZ430 motor a couple times. You are aware that the 430 used Fast Burn heads which will not work with your stock style intake or the SR intake right? You will have to use a special TPI base desinged to be used with Vortec style heads (they're out there) or another choice may be a Miniram which is available for the Vortec style heads. My choice would be the Miniram persoanlly - just to free up the top end of a 430. The ZZ4 engine would work but as others have mentioned a stock TPI setup will "choke" it at higher RPM's - still lots of torque down low though. The SR would help a lot. You can get another 30HP or so by swapping to the Hot Cam that was used in the 430 too.

I have done a lot of autocrossing and several open-track events with the stock ZZ3 in my '85 which has around 20K on it. No problems yet and I'm using the stock oil pan (but not for long). I have come very close to changine the motor in one way or another but always seem to talk myself out of it since it's been so reliable and can more than hold it's own. My wife makes fun of me because I look forward to the day it breaks forcing me to do something different.

One other thing that deserves mention is that GM is coming out with a 425HP 383 in 2003 that I believe will raise some eyebrows. They use a 4130 steel Cola crank and forged pistons in the bottom end making it almost bulletproof. They also do not bore the block to get the 383 inches but rather use a 3.8" stroke crank. I'm curious to see what the price ends up at though. Good luck! -Jeff

 

Jeff what heads are they running on that 383?

 

What ever you do, do not use the stock TPI intake. ZZ430 with the correct tpi/vortech base & a s/r or miniram on top sounds good. Dont forget the exhaust & throttle bodiy!

 

http://www.goautocenter.com

You can get teh zz430 with edelbrock or trickflow heads.....

 

Thanks guys still got some reserch to do though, thanks again for all your input and advise :cheers: :cool:

 

the fast burns are no problem, you just put a SR top on a scoggin doggy base. kind of a large runner to be using though. if it's available with the edelbrock rpms they might be a better choice

 

The ZZ430 is not the same as ZZ4. ZZ430 uses the same short block as ZZ4 but it uses the fast burn heads, and the HOT cam to achieve 430hp. The regular ZZ4 uses regular corvette aluminum D ports and the ZZ-4 cam. You can no longer purchase the ZZ430 motors from GM, they were limited and quite expensive. All the ZZ430 came individually numbered on the valve covers and they went for around $12,000 new.

As far as the new GM 383. I am not sure if this is the same motor 18carfan is talking about. P# 12498332. The components used in this 383 is basically the same as the ZZ-4 with PM rods, a forged crank, and cast pistons. The rotating assembly in the ZZ-4 is basically the same exact thing as LT-4 except it is stuffed into a 4 bolt main Gen 1 block.

For the people that says a ZZ-4 shortblock can't be raced I say other wise. GM produced the ZZ-430 as one of the most powerful 350s ever built by GM or any American auto manufacture for that matter. If they didn't believe it would be reliable with 430hp do you think they would have built it, advertised it as the highest performance 350 small block ever, and sold it?

My ZZ-4 350 shortblock make more power than most strokers with 372rwhp with a very mild Hot cam, and with nitrous it makes over 500rwhp.

Basically, you will have a bad butt motor is you tried to clone the ZZ430.


[Modified by zelement, 11:55 PM 12/15/2002]

 

18carfan, is this the crank you are talking about? P#12489436 4340 forged steel crank with 3.800" stroke. fits in blocks with one piece rear main on 86-later SB.

The 383 piston P#12489437
383 PM rods P#12497870

 

a hot cam in a fast burn 385 makes a zz430.

i don't think anyone doubts the motors can be raced. it's the high rpms that get spooky. these engines are production parts, there's no hand balancing, blueprinting of clearances or the fine work that keeps a motor togeather at 6000+ rpms. unless your doing a miniram motor it doesn't really matter too much as the superram seems to do the best with under 225deg@.50 on the cam and 6000rpm shift points. my only gripe is you can build a real street/strip engine for what these things cost. if someone doesn't have access to a race class engine builder they are good buys and don't burn oil like the majority of super smooth honed, forged piston race engines.

 

Yes, I got the metallergy wrong y going off memory last night. Price through GM by itself though :eek: . -Jeff

 

Fast burn