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To shut down there are many ways, but simple disconnect pink wire on distributor car will turn off then disconnect battery to save it. Then you can start your troubleshooting the problem in the morning . Probably a bad switch on bottom of column or rack & rod problem
Last edited by s carter; Mar 19, 2022 at 09:19 PM.
If I remember right GM had an ignition switch problem that did that, probably 20 years ago. Had to do with hanging things on your key ring, could be wrong, I forget what I had for lunch,
How did you shut it off this time? A problem with the ignition switch on the column, the rack and rod as already mentioned for sure OR maybe the pinion gear on the end of the ignition cylinder. You should be able to observe, feel the rod down the column to ignition switch while rotating the key. If you feel the rod moving then the lock cylinder, the pinion gear, rod and rack could be considered to be operational.
Added accessories or wiring repairs.? Including plugging disconnected connectors together. I once worked on a car where the unused underhood light connector was plugged into the fuel plug prime connector. It back feed the fuse box engine ran and accessories operated as long a lights were on.
Could it be a worn key that wont turn off the ignition when turning the car to off?
C
I wouldn't think a worn key would have any effect on your condition. Have you tried to feel the rod to the ignition switch on the column? Could you have an electrical issue with either of the 2 connectors at the switch or the switch itself? It's certainly possible but you'll need to look.
I really believe you'll find an issue maybe ignition rack and the pinion gear. This kit can be bought if you shop well for less than 10$
*** Do you have the FSM?
*** If after 'shut down' it starts again with a key rotation but still doesn't shut off and the key still can be removed I'd be inclined to first check the 2 connectors and the ignition switch. You don't need to remove any column parts for diagnostics so there ain't nothing simpler than that for now.
As WVZR-1 said your problem is elsewhere, the Key holds no other function except a VATs Chip holding device(in later cars), a standard matching key/cylinder and a way to rotate the rack.
Now question
when turning the key is it effortless like your turning nothing. Or do you feel something mechanical happening like a switch down by your feet, because that's where the electrical action is.
If you feel the rack moving odds are you have a problem with switch on the lower column or a bigger electrical problem. If rack is effortless its the rack not moving rod which would need to be confirmed with hand on rod to feel it move. It also can be the switch because it's internals may have broken
Last edited by s carter; Mar 31, 2022 at 08:19 AM.
It seems pretty effortless when turning the key to 'off'. Where are the above parts located mentioned by WVZR? I can check them to see if the problem lies there.
Best to start by dropping driver's side knee kick panel, follow the steering column down to bottom 8" on top there's a 6" steel switch (Ignition switch) running up the column is a rod. Put 1 hand on it and turn key with other. When key is turned you should feel rod slide. If it Doesn't move you need to investigate WVZR-1s parts. They are located under steering wheel and under the wheel lock plate.(which requires some knowledge and some special tools,but can be done by most)
If it does move you need a Ignition switch and they are cheap and available at local parts stores.
Can you start the car with the key, but not turn off.
if so can you turn off the car by sliding the switch rod by hand. If so that could indicate the rack/gear failed.
Last edited by s carter; Mar 23, 2022 at 01:00 PM.
Here is a picture of the mechanism under the steering column. Here is the mechanism of my under column area. For orientation, the front of the car is to the left, the steering wheel is to the right. I see three metal rods. From top to bottom. The top is not connected and the square piece with the round opening is not connected to anything. When I turn the key the middle rod (the one with the slight bend upwards) moves back and forth. The bottom one does not do anything when i turn the key
I have not yet tried to turn off the car by sliding the rod. I wanted to make sure I understand the anatomy first.
You got it!! Did you have someone turning the 'KEY' with battery disconnected while you watched? The upper in your snapshot that's NOT connected is the 'park lock cable'. Shouldn't have anything to do with your issue. The middle rod if while you watch and someone rotates key should move, the lower is 'dimmer' that if connected correctly you should be able to see move also if lever is lifted. You mentioned it moving so if battery connected and the car 'CRANKS & RUNS' but won't shut off moving the rod should 'SHUT DOWN' if the upper column parts (rod you see upper rack you can't see) are correctly attached. You're very close to what's needed for an ignition switch switch replacement. Is the switch maybe loose on the column mast jacket?
You answered your own question, as you said the bent one moves with the key (ignition rod) you proved the rack/gear works. So now pull the switch off the column, the rod has a bend at the end that fits in a hole in the switch you can stick a nail/small screwdriver in the hole and manually test switch for it's functions. It should feel knotchy click through functions, loose no effort probably means bad switch. You have it in hand anyway and they are cheap.
Last edited by s carter; Mar 29, 2022 at 09:10 PM.
OK, great. If I am understanding correctly, I just need an ignition lock cylinder. It IS loose in the column neck actually!
Last question: Do i need to dismantle the column, steering wheel down, to get to the ignition cylinder out from the inside or does the lock cylinder pop out of the side of the column? I saw some videos where the person had to take the column pieces out below the steering wheel. Is this needed?
OK, great. If I am understanding correctly, I just need an ignition lock cylinder. It IS loose in the column neck actually!
Last question: Do i need to dismantle the column, steering wheel down, to get to the ignition cylinder out from the inside or does the lock cylinder pop out of the side of the column? I saw some videos where the person had to take the column pieces out below the steering wheel. Is this needed?
Charles
I don't know that I'd immediately assume key & cylinder, but it's certainly inexpensive and can be bought locally. I'd check to be sure the ignition switch is actually secured correctly to the column mast jacket. The FSM @ 3B5-5 and following might help for confirming the install is good. If you do decide to do the key and cylinder there's plastics that I'd consider maintenance in the upper column under the steering wheel. Maybe that's info that's been 'secret messaged' to you!
Lock cylinders either work or don't work they don't So So. WVZR-1 brings up the point that the actual Ignition on the column they have been known to slip a bit and a simple reset and tighten can sometimes fix the problem.
I feel that part of the lower switch got Brittle and broke away, allowing you move one way and not push/pull back the other way
Last edited by s carter; Mar 30, 2022 at 01:46 PM.
Thanks to everyone for their input. So this is where it is at. I installed a new ignition switch, tested it using the rod movement by the key and by simply moving the mechanism in the switch back and forth with a screwdriver. The rod clearly moves.
Car still runs with key out. Only way to turn it off is by pulling fuses for injectors.
There is no remote starter. It does not appear that any of the wiring under the dash is monkeyed with.
