PLEASE HELP QUICK!!! I dropped the car off at a shop to get some welding done and when it was time to leave the car wouldn't turn over, I've got electrical power but when the car goes into start the only thing that happens is the brake light on the display comes on. There's no clicking or anything, the mechanic put the car on a battery charger hoping that it might help, but does anyone have an explanation, could the connectors on the battery not be good enough of a connection for the current or something? The accessories don't seem to dim when it goes into starting so I'm not sure what it is. I've messed with my wiring a bit, but nothing has changed since yesterday and it started up just fine several times then. PLEASE HELP!!! :cry :cry :cry

 

Did you try disconnecting the battery for about 5 minutes too? Maybe VATS?

 

Is there anything that you would need to do to clear the computer...ie, touch the connectors together to discharge everything??? Chilton says something about pulling a fuse for the ecm but I could never find it.

 

On my car there is a small plug that comes off of hte (+) battery terminal that feeds constant 12v to the ECM. I can either unplug that or disconnect the (+) wire to the battery.

 

Thanks Scorp,

I'll have to try that when I go out there again this afternoon. Does anybody have any other ideas if that doesn't work???

 

Just a though I think all cars have a fuseable link ( main fuse) It sounds like it's blown

 

If you had a poor cable connection to the battery, your dash lights would go out or dim when you hit the starter. It sounds like trouble with the VATS circuit. When you hit the start position, can you hear a relay click behind the center of the dash? This is the start enable relay and it will only close when the VATS module detects the correct pellet resistance in the ignition key. First try your spare ign key as its pellet is not worn like your every day key. Next, giggle the gear shift lever when attempting a crank. Your safety switch on the gear lever may be loose or worn. Remove the console plate over the gear lever and jump the safety switch and try a start. Find the 2 wires with a connector coming from the steering column which is the two contacts in the ign sw that make with the key pellet ( on my 87 they come out the steering column on the floor under the carpet) and unplug them and measure the resistance of the wires from the steering column with the key in place. It should measure the same resistance as the pellet. If over 10k ohms, replace the ign sw. You can temporarily bypass the VATS by clipping a fixed resistor the same value as the pellet onto the wires going over to the passenger side (VATS module). Don't permanently bypass VATS because 99% of thefts are done by bashing the column and jumping the ignition.


[Modified by jfb, 4:57 PM 3/2/2003]

 

Ok, the plot thickens.....I went to the mechanics shop and removed the negative battery wire(black) instead of removing the red one, :withstupid: I connected the two togther after waiting 15 minutes and the same thing happened, it dawned on me 20 minutes later that I messed up there. But then my mechanic told me that the alarm did go off when he first pulled the car in, he said that he put the key in the ignition but he wasn't sure if he turned it or not and then he shut the door and turned the key in the lock and it shut off. So maybe that was it. The car is parked outside so I can't work on it now, it's too dark, but I'll try the positive wire tomarrow morning and go back during lunch and check it, if it doesn't work, I'll see about bypassing the VATS wires going to the ignition. I'll keep you updated, Thanks for the help guys!

 

VATS does two things, not allow the starter to crank and not pulse the injectors, so the only way to bypass VATS is to clip a fixed resistor onto the wires going to the passenger side of the car with the 2 pin plug unplugged so that the ign key pellet can't affect the fixed resistor value.

 

have you checked the neutral safety switch?

 

OK, I put the fixed resistor in place and it measured 6k ohms just like the key does, but still nothing. I measured the wires right there going to the key and they also measured 6k. I also tore apart the center console to look at the gear cutout switch. I've got no clue what to look for with this switch, there are a bunch of wires comming out of it, can someone give me a clue???

 

Yellow wire off ignition splits. 1/2 goes to starter enable relay (beneath left side of dash)

Also powers crank / clutch fuse (5A) loacated in fuse block (Right side of dash)

Purple wire comes off fuse and powers transmission position switch (in console, on base of shift control lever) If transmission is is P or N switch allows power to go to purple wire (on switch) and powers starter enable relay (along with the CCM)

Check power on yellow wire coming off ignition switch. Does it power up when you try to crank ??? If not, check power coming into ignition switch or VATS. If yes, check fuse in fuse panel. If OK, check yellow wire coming off transmission position switch. Does it power up with ignition switch when you try to crank. If not, position swich, if yes, starter enable relay, CCM, or starter itself.

My description is probably confusing but it's a start.

Jim

 

OK, here's what's up. I tested a few things and here's what I found. There is voltage going through the Transmition Position Switch and out to the 5A fuse. I double checked the fuse and even swapped it with another one...Still nothing. Since I'm seeing voltage there, the VATS is ok then, right??? Is my next place to start looking the Starter Solenoid??? Where exactly is this? Mind you that I'm doing this outside at my mechanics shop with temps in the single digits so I can't really go looking around for stuff, a good pinpointed direction would be VERY appreciative. PLEASE HELP!!!

 

Power to the starter solenoid comes from the battery to the ign sw to the start enable relay to the gear selector switch to the starter solenoid terminal.
If 12v shows up on the gear selector switch when the ign sw is in, "crank" position, then 12 v should also be on the starter solenoid contact on the starter motor and if the start solenoid is ok and the starter motor frame is making good connection to ground, then the starter should crank the engine.

 

First move south. I used to live in Minnesota. :lol:

 

Can I send you this starter circuit???

Jim

 

Lets remember that you had something welded here. This is a fiberglass car and there isn't alot of good places for a welder to ground to. Where did the mechanic weld?(Grounded to motor-welded frame) Check for a burnt ground wire or stap from where he was welding to maybe the block or the batt. Was the batt disconnected prior to welding? I think there are certain precautions needed before welding to a FI car.
Maybe someone has more info about that?

 

I had a very simular issue just days ago.
Dont laugh but I cleaned the key with Electrod cleaner and the car started :confused:
I also bought a new key for $20 bucks

 

Jim,

Please feel free to send me the schematic. My email is assashi@hotmail.com. I'm now sitting at home all day because spending time out in the cold single digits got me SICK!!! :U The first sick day I've ever taken, EVER. This car is going to be the death of me :blueangel: OK, I've got it figured out that it's not the VATS and not the tranny position switch, the next thing is the start solenoid, right? Where is this located on the car. I looked at the chilton manual and it doesn't appear to be on the starter like the earlier C4's. Would it be possible to try and bypass the starter solenoid with a set of jumper cables??? to see if the start will work? and possibly start the car and get it into my garage so I can fix it? I'd atleast like to check the electrical connections on the solenoid to make sure it's getting voltages....Where is it again??? Thanks guys.

OH, and about the welding, it was just some SS intake piping that I had done and put in the car, there was not actually any welding done on the car.


[Modified by mn_vette, 6:30 PM 3/4/2003]

 

TTT