Could I have a possible VATS problem?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 4
From: Middle River MD
Could I have a possible VATS problem?
Last night I got in the car and it would not start. All the lights on the dash lit up, electrical switched were still working, etc. When I turned the key just the lights came on in the dash, no clicking from the starter or anything. I looked at the volts gauge and it was around 11.8-11.9 just sitting there with the key on. After several more tries I gave up and went inside to think about it.
Well I came out 15 minutes later and it fired right up no problem. Volts were reading 14 with it running everything appeared to be functioning properly. A friend of mine said that my VATS is the problem. There are some white wires in their that could be pinched or worn from use over the years and they are not reading the proper resistance or something? He said when you try to start it and it doesn't get a proper resistance reading the VATS will arm and you have to wait like 15 minutes before trying again.
What happened to me was very similar to what he was saying, so could this be my problem?
Well I came out 15 minutes later and it fired right up no problem. Volts were reading 14 with it running everything appeared to be functioning properly. A friend of mine said that my VATS is the problem. There are some white wires in their that could be pinched or worn from use over the years and they are not reading the proper resistance or something? He said when you try to start it and it doesn't get a proper resistance reading the VATS will arm and you have to wait like 15 minutes before trying again.
What happened to me was very similar to what he was saying, so could this be my problem?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 871
Likes: 1
From: Westland MI.
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (HeeHaw89)
It could be a VATS problem. I would get a new key every year until I finally disabled my VATS. Seems the pellet on the key would get worn from being used, or rubbing other keys on the key ring. When you go to put the key in the ignition the gap would be too big between the key and sensor, and the car would see that as the wrong key, and start the lock timer. All I did was measure the key resistance, make a jumper out of resistors and place it on the computer side of the 2 yellow wire harness under the steering coulumn to bypass VATS.
Another thing it could be is the G.M. hot start problem. Were you driving the car before it locked up on you? Or was it the first start attempt in several hours. I also had the problem where the starter solenoid would get heat soaked and not do anything until it cooled off. Acts just like VATS when it happens. I bought a remote solenoid kit that moves it away from the headers. Bought it through Summit, and never had a problem again.
Let us know if you have any more questions.
Another thing it could be is the G.M. hot start problem. Were you driving the car before it locked up on you? Or was it the first start attempt in several hours. I also had the problem where the starter solenoid would get heat soaked and not do anything until it cooled off. Acts just like VATS when it happens. I bought a remote solenoid kit that moves it away from the headers. Bought it through Summit, and never had a problem again.
Let us know if you have any more questions.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 4
From: Middle River MD
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (Fast Glass)
It was a cold start attempt...failed, came back 20 minutes later and it worked. Maybe just pulling the key out and trying again moved it around enough to get a good reading. The pellet does look a little worn and chewed up. I have a brand new key that I was keeping as a spare. I may try and use that and see if the problem returns. Was the process of disabling the VATS a big deal?
Anyone else who has had VATS issues, please share them here.
Thanks
Anyone else who has had VATS issues, please share them here.
Thanks
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,889
Likes: 2
From: Castro Valley Calif.
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (HeeHaw89)
I just had my first vats experience the other day I think. I stopped in to gas up and........bingo........ same thing as you! Kind of embarrassing........my car was all cleaned up and people were checkin' it out.......... then the sucker won't start :lol:
I got to thinking "how effective is this damn system anyway" while I waited for the timer, then sure enough it fired up and I drove off.
Mental note to self: disable that thing...... it wouldn't keep a good thief from swiping the car anyway :D
Edit: I even tried locking and unlocking the doors while I waited, thinking I might disarm it.........no cigar.....
[Modified by Caboboy, 8:32 AM 3/11/2003]
I got to thinking "how effective is this damn system anyway" while I waited for the timer, then sure enough it fired up and I drove off.
Mental note to self: disable that thing...... it wouldn't keep a good thief from swiping the car anyway :D
Edit: I even tried locking and unlocking the doors while I waited, thinking I might disarm it.........no cigar.....
[Modified by Caboboy, 8:32 AM 3/11/2003]
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 4
From: Middle River MD
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (Caboboy)
So exactly how long is the timer? I waited around 20 minutes, but could have been longer. I just want to know so next time I'll know.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,889
Likes: 2
From: Castro Valley Calif.
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (HeeHaw89)
I don't know exactly........10 minutes or so? It seemed like an hour to me tho :lol:
I'll look it up in my service manual later on when I get home if somebody else doesn't chime in first.
I've had my car 10 years or so and never had this happen before, but it was always in the back of my mind 'cause of the stories you hear :yesnod:
I'll look it up in my service manual later on when I get home if somebody else doesn't chime in first.
I've had my car 10 years or so and never had this happen before, but it was always in the back of my mind 'cause of the stories you hear :yesnod:
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (HeeHaw89)
I believe that the timer is 6 minutes. Don't defeat VATS, 99% of thefts are done by bashing the column and jumping the ignition. First try your spare ignition key, if no luck, then unplug the 2 pin connector on the wires from your ign sw. On my 87, these wires come out the bottom of the steering column under the carpet. With the ign key in place, measure the resistance of the wires from the column, it should be the same as the pellet. If over 10k ohms, you need a new ign sw. My 87 has 182k on it and I have replaced the ign sw a couple years ago and have had no problem with VATS since.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 4
From: Middle River MD
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (jfb)
Actually the old key is still working, it just left me sitting that one time, but I think I'll carry the new key from now on, or just replace the ignition and be done with it. How much will the ignition cost me?
Thanks
Thanks
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,240
Likes: 42
From: Baltimore, MD USA
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (HeeHaw89)
If the Pass Key system is working properly when you first insert the key and turn it to run, the security light should go out. If it stays on solid the key pellet resistance doesn't match what's stored in the VATS decoder module. A random time delay will begin where you won't beable to start the car.
Most likely a worn key pellet or the contacts that are part of the ignition cylinder are worn out.
If it happens again, drop the hush panel, disconnect the small 2 pin wire harness down at the bottom of the steering column and with the key in the ignition, measure the resistance. It should match the resistance of the key pellet.
For test purposes or an emergency you can disconnect the harness and use a resistor of the same value of the key pellet. Place it across the leads going back to the VATS decoder module.
Here's a link that explains the Pass Key
http://home.t-online.de/home/O_Scholz/vats.html
You can also short A to B on the Diag. connector, turn the igniton on and check for a VATS error code.
Most likely a worn key pellet or the contacts that are part of the ignition cylinder are worn out.
If it happens again, drop the hush panel, disconnect the small 2 pin wire harness down at the bottom of the steering column and with the key in the ignition, measure the resistance. It should match the resistance of the key pellet.
For test purposes or an emergency you can disconnect the harness and use a resistor of the same value of the key pellet. Place it across the leads going back to the VATS decoder module.
Here's a link that explains the Pass Key
http://home.t-online.de/home/O_Scholz/vats.html
You can also short A to B on the Diag. connector, turn the igniton on and check for a VATS error code.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Suburb Illinois
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (HeeHaw89)
:iagree: sound like the vats sys. If I remember right when you try to start the engine the timer is set for about 3-4 minutes. If you try to start again after a minute it would take another 3-4 minutes. Hope this helps.... :cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,117
Likes: 221
From: Ca.
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (Mike_D)
Odds are it's the ignition lock cyl. and not the key....and it's just slowly going to keep getting worse.....and yea-it's a 4 min. lockout time. I'd measure the keys resistance/or have a locksmith measure it for you; and then order a bypass or make one asap until you can get around to fixing it.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 4
From: Middle River MD
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (drive it)
So are all ignition cylinders the same or do I have to get the one to work with my specific VATS? Mine is a #6, out of like 15 or 20 I believe.
Is this a dealer only item? Cost?
[Modified by HeeHaw89, 1:46 PM 3/12/2003]
Is this a dealer only item? Cost?
[Modified by HeeHaw89, 1:46 PM 3/12/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Re: Could I have a possible VATS problem? (HeeHaw89)
There is nothing specific about ignition switches with the exception of the tumbler. Your VATS module determines if the correct pellet resistance is installed in the ignition switch. The switch is merely a switch with 2 contacts that make with the pellet on the key. Normally you get a new ignition key and the correct pellet is installed to match your VATS module.
[Modified by jfb, 9:01 AM 3/12/2003]
[Modified by jfb, 9:01 AM 3/12/2003]
