Torque vs. HP
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 110
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From: Cleveland Ohio
Torque vs. HP
Why is that every one focuses on HP when Torque is what you feel on the street. And isn't HP just a function of Torque.
Shouldn’t we be contemplating how to increase our engines Torque instead of HP?
Shouldn’t we be contemplating how to increase our engines Torque instead of HP?
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Athens AL
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Re: Torque vs. HP (johnboy89)
Yep, TQ is what youre feeling, HP is not related to a force but more to a Power. (The physics P=F.v, torque is N=F x r)
But what gets me is when people ask "how much HP can this handle before it breaks?" when its really the torque that breaks things.
But what gets me is when people ask "how much HP can this handle before it breaks?" when its really the torque that breaks things.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
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From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Torque vs. HP (vader86)
This thread could get ugly :jester this is a long standing debate.
Indeed torque is what breaks things as it is a twisting force but the two are intertwined.
Anyway what gets you to the stripes first is the area under the HP curve...at the rear wheels.
Indeed torque is what breaks things as it is a twisting force but the two are intertwined.
Anyway what gets you to the stripes first is the area under the HP curve...at the rear wheels.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati Oh
Re: Torque vs. HP (65Z01)
Anyway what gets you to the stripes first is the area under the HP curve...at the rear wheels.
I tend to think of it as Torque pulls you off the line (aka Seat of the Pants and accelleration), but HP is the efficiency of that pulling but at a much higher RPM- where filling the cylinders efficienty with air becomes much more difficult. So if you run your car up into 5 or 6 grand (say, at the drag strip), then you need HP to... Aw hell!
:lolg:
All I know is that I have a 205 horse (300ft-lbs of torque) `84 that pulls like a mother off the line, but further up the RPM scale it really peters out.
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 43
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Re: Torque vs. HP (Ramanstud)
Isn't the equation something like HP=torque*rpm/5025.
I have gone through this with my engineering buddy who is into rally racing. The torque is what wins races. Where that torque curve is at the max is another important factor. The maximum HP is for top speed when the force of the car is opposing drag or wind resistance. I had a nice link to explain all this better than I have and I can't find it. Had a nice exponential calculation of how many horses you needed to get up to different speeds. :lurk:
R/T
I have gone through this with my engineering buddy who is into rally racing. The torque is what wins races. Where that torque curve is at the max is another important factor. The maximum HP is for top speed when the force of the car is opposing drag or wind resistance. I had a nice link to explain all this better than I have and I can't find it. Had a nice exponential calculation of how many horses you needed to get up to different speeds. :lurk:
R/T
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Advanced
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: lakeland fl
Re: Torque vs. HP (Rockthumper)
Horsepower wins races- torque wins tractor pulls. The way I always think of it is that torque is work, horsepower is the rate of work getting done, so that I can have a locomotive for torque, capable of pulling anything, but horsepower is the speedy application of that work. More torque is fine, but I need to find a way to apply that work, ergo I pour on more revs- An electric motor has infinite torque, zero horsepower at zero rpm.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 4
From: Houston TX
Re: Torque vs. HP (black_89_vette)
When people say that it's torque that gets you off the line...ok, yeah, but you could also say that it's low end horsepower. Horsepower is Torque*RPM/5252. And, for the record, it's not torque that wins races, it's horsepower. Give me a C4 that makes 400 lb-ft at 3000 and one that makes 300 lb-ft at 6000, gear them to keep the motor in it's power band, and I'll beat you in the 300 lb-ft @ 6000 rpm every time, because it's horsepower that wins a race, not torque. It IS, however, torque that breaks stuff. Why do you think an 850HP Winston Cup car can get away with running a T-10 transmission without breaking it? Because 850HP @ 9500 RPM is only 470 lb-ft. Look at specs for transmissions, clutches, differentials, etc, etc, etc and it's all stated in terms of torque (though it isn't uncommon to see RPM limitations as part of those specs because of bearing loads)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,241
Likes: 9
From: Houston TX
Re: Torque vs. HP
that does it... i'm going to make a web page explaining some of the more common debates. at least that way i can reply with a link rather than 2 hours of stomach acid and finger cramping...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 983
Likes: 1
From: Bergen County NJ
Re: Torque vs. HP (MSR)
Go for it!! I know exactly how you feel. Every time this comes up, I start typing up an explanation, with all types of examples to help people understand, but it gets soooo long that I give up mid-way.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
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From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: Torque vs. HP (johnboy89)
Geesh!!! Don't we get more rear wheel torque in 1st gear than 6th gear??
Maybe gears win races??? Someone care to explain rear wheel torque in various gears vs engine torque, after all rear wheels is what makes the car go!!
Maybe gears win races??? Someone care to explain rear wheel torque in various gears vs engine torque, after all rear wheels is what makes the car go!!
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 4
From: Houston TX
Re: Torque vs. HP (LT4BUD)
Geesh!!! Don't we get more rear wheel torque in 1st gear than 6th gear??
Maybe gears win races??? Someone care to explain rear wheel torque in various gears vs engine torque, after all rear wheels is what makes the car go!!
Maybe gears win races??? Someone care to explain rear wheel torque in various gears vs engine torque, after all rear wheels is what makes the car go!!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Re: Torque vs. HP (Red Rocket)
Well I'd say if we put a 2:1 step down gear 370 lbs @ 6000 rpm we get 740 lbs at 3000 rpm which is a lot more than 400 lbs at 3000 rpm.
So the moral must be torque at higher rpm (as in more hp) is better than the same torque at lower rpm ( as in lower hp for same torque) because you can use gears to boost up your rear wheel torque.
Do I have the right idea with this rwtq concept??
So the moral must be torque at higher rpm (as in more hp) is better than the same torque at lower rpm ( as in lower hp for same torque) because you can use gears to boost up your rear wheel torque.
Do I have the right idea with this rwtq concept??
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 4
From: Houston TX
Re: Torque vs. HP (LT4BUD)
Well I'd say if we put a 2:1 step down gear 370 lbs @ 6000 rpm we get 740 lbs at 3000 rpm which is a lot more than 400 lbs at 3000 rpm.
So the moral must be torque at higher rpm (as in more hp) is better than the same torque at lower rpm ( as in lower hp for same torque) because you can use gears to boost up your rear wheel torque.
Do I have the right idea with this rwtq concept??
So the moral must be torque at higher rpm (as in more hp) is better than the same torque at lower rpm ( as in lower hp for same torque) because you can use gears to boost up your rear wheel torque.
Do I have the right idea with this rwtq concept??