Narnian

I drove around yesterday. Last night we had a heavy rainstorm. I've been home all day and decided to run an errand 30 minutes ago. Unfortunately my Vette won't start. Not even a the beginnings of cranking. Nothing. Dead as a doornail.

I have power - the lights and radio are coming on. I even hooked up my jumpstart battery charger and set it for jump. No difference.

This car has an aftermarket alarm (Excaliber) that the PO installed. I played with the alarm guessing that it may have a kill switch. No variation of the alarm would get the car to start. So I'm wondering, if VATS gets fried, how do you know?

I'd really like to go buy some dinner. I'm semi-stranded at the moment since my Jeep is being worked on too.



[Modified by Narnian, 3:22 PM 4/7/2003]

sumoboy

Is it an automatic? It could be you neutral safety switch. Move the shifter around while starting. Wires to the solenoid? I think vats would at least crank the engine.

Might have to call in for delivery :D


[Modified by sumoboy, 9:52 PM 4/7/2003]

Narnian

I think something was wet and needed to dry off, but I can't imagine what. I might also have a problem with VATS, but I don't know how to diagnose it.

I waited 10 minutes, and tried with my spare key which is in brand new condition. Still didn't work. I armed/disarmed the Excalibur 5 times, waited 10 minutes and tried again. Still didn't work. I got on the phone with Omega (the makers of Excalibur) and after a half hour wait they told me they doubted the kill switch would be a problem (if there is one), since the alarm is arming and disarming. I hunted the net for clues for another 15 minutes.

I decided to try starting it again, because I read a note that said if the problem was not VATS you should hear a solenoid click behind the dashboard. This time (to my complete surprise) the car started!

This has happened twice before, and both times it was after either a rainstorm or heavy snow. I still need help, because I don't like getting stranded. If there is a problem with VATS, I want to get it fixed. I just don't know how to start diagnosing a problem like this.

r15752

You may have a dead spot in the starter. does the starter sylnoid click when you turn the key to start? if not I would say it is electrical.turn on the key and the lights at the same time do they go dim? I always try different things till I figure it out. :chevy :auto:

jfb

When you turn the ign sw to crank, you should be able to hear the start enable relay click behind the center of the dash if VATS is working. If it does click , then try jumping the clutch safety switch (unplug and jump), or if an automatic, remove the console plate and jump the gear selector switch and try a crank. You can prove VATS should be working by finding the 2 wires with a connector from the steering column. These come from the contacts in the ign sw that make with the key pellet (on my 87 they come out on the floor under the carpet). Unplug the connector and with your key in, measure the resistance of the wires from the column. It should read the same as the pellet. If over 10k ohms, you will need to replace the ign sw. You can bypass VATS by clipping a fixed resistor the same value as your pellet on the wires going to the passenger side (VATS module). Don't make this a permanent solution because 99% of thefts are by bashing the column and jumping the ign. You can check the starter by jumping 12v to the start solenoid on the starter and it should crank.

Narnian

Before it started working again, I did hear a click behind the dashboard. I'm guessing that is the relay of which you speak. Does that mean that Vats is kicking in and preventing the car from starting, or that VATS is allowing the power to go through and I have a different problem altogether?

It IS an automatic.


[Modified by Narnian, 10:38 PM 4/7/2003]

jfb

If you hear the relay, this means that VATS has verified that your pellet is the correct one and it closes the start enable relay partly completing the circuit to the starter solenoid. Next you will want to remove the plate on the console so you can see the switch on the gear selector lever. You should take a wire with clip leads and jump the switch and try a crank. You might first hit the crank position and wiggle the gear selector lever to see if it might crank. If it does, then go look at the gear sel switch . Here is how power gets to the start solenoid terminal which makes the starter run: Battery through a fusible link, through the firewall connector , through the ignition switch, through the start enable relay contacts, through the gear selector lever, back through the firewall connector , then to the starter solenoid terminal on the starter.
If you jump 12v to the starter solenoid, you will prove that the starter is ok or not. Then, put a voltmeter on the gear selector switch and hit crank position on the ign and if you get 12v, then the ign sw and the start enable relay contacts are ok. Then measure if there is 12v on the starter solenoid terminal when you hit crank position.

Narnian

Thanks. I think I can follow those instructions fairly well. It's supposed to warm up a bit this weekend, so maybe I'll take the console apart then and inspect those parts. I've been meaning to check out the temperature control connections anyway, which also require me removing that console.

Putter

Just a simple idea you might try. Look at you battery terminals. In certain wet conditions, moisture will not allow a good flow to the starter, enough to crank. Take the cables off, wire brush them for a good contact, then connect back to the battery. Spray a little white grease on them to prevent moisture from getting between terminal & cable. Accesories & lights will usually turn on, but the starter takes a lot more juice. Just a suggestion.

Pats90

It could be something as simple as the chip in the ignition key. Does the ignition key look worn or dirty? Try cleaning the key with an alcohol pad. There is a chip in the ignition key that has a certain resistance value. If the VATs can't read it the car won't start. It disables the starter and fuel injectors. You then need to wait 5 minutes before you try again. There are 15 possible resistance values for the key. This happened to my 90 convertible. i was able to clean the key and it started. I then had a new key made as the old one was worn badly.

86Pacecar

My 86 has begun to not start intermittantly. I was thinking the problem was due to heat because after waiting a while for the engine to cool(more than 5 minutes) it would fire right back up. Never heard that 5 minute rule before, thanks for some useful info. :)

lar66BB

If the vats in the key gets wet it can cause this problem.

Narnian

This was a looooong time ago. Eventually I had a dealership disable the Excaliber Alarm system - which was dissapointing since it provided me with keyless entry. I thought that fixed it, but a year later the problem came back. It would only happen once every three or four months. Three years ago I changed the starter, thinking the problem was in the starter itself. I drove the car consistently for about a year and didn't experience this problem. Then the car sat for about a year and a half. Right now a friend is driving cross country for me and working on the car, and the problem has popped up again. First time its happened since I changed the starter.

Anyone have any suggestions?

jfb

Yes, I already gave them to you earlier in this thread.