I think you said it all yourself THE 10 OR SO PEOPLE! Some people still race flat head ford's

 

Hey ski_dwn_it,

I know a shop around here that say they will sell a rebuilt 406 shortblock with the heads, no intake or headers. They are selling it for 2300, do you think I should go with that? I also latter on plan on building a custome Twin Turbo Setup in the Winter so I would like to have it built once and only once, so 8.5 to 1 compression or even 9 to 1 would be a must. Question is, how does a 406 with only that much compression and say not so good heads for now ( I guess so if they make an offer for 2300) with a Ported out TPI Unit, how much power would you assume it could make? Will My dana 36 live for a month or two if I take it easy? :confused:

 

I'd like to invite all those who don't think the 400 block has cooling issues to bring your Vettes to Phoenix in July when it's 118&deg. Or better yet, Gila Bend...

It's just physics people; the 400 cylinder walls are siamesed and therefore not completely surrounded by a water jacket. So they're definitely hotter between those inner cylinders. The circulation is weird because those joined cylinder casings creating an internal "wall".

The C4 radiaotor is marginal already, but hey nothing wrong with the 400 if you live in a reasonable climate and have a top-notch cooling system. How bout we all compromise and go 396 :cool:

 

gcrouse sorry to hear you live in a god awful place why dont you move to a better area that has real weather like the other 95% of us live and you too can build a real engine and not worry about heat issues :D :cheers:

 

Light84vette,

For 2300 bucks you could build a new shortblock yourself with the parts you know can handle your future plans. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying a rebuild with big plans like you describe. Unless of course you know these guys to be good and honest builders.

The D36 will work as long as your not cranking continously on it. I wouldn't do any whole shots :) And it definately won't last with your planned future mods.

OMG a twin turbo 406 would make unreal power. There are just too many variables to say for sure. But it would be up there. 500+ RWHP and probably 600-700+ft-lbs. Lets just say you will have your hands full.

:cheers:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't some of the problems so many people point out with the 400s result from the short rod and high side loads on the cylinder walls (friction) that were a result of the rods? They also came stock with really heavy rod ends on the pin end and pistons that looked like they were made for a diesel. Install the 5.7 or 6.0 rods with better pistons and this problem is solved. :thumbs:

 

I have a 421 running around Albuquerque right now that is very stout, packing a FAST system and housed in a 1980 C3 with a transplanted T56... He IS running a Ron Davis radiator but that car rarely sees 200 in N.M. heat... It did have some cooling issues at first but it wasn't the 400 block, it was the fact that the RD radiator, though thicker, was shorter than the OEM and placed the radiator cap below the water neck and it couldn't be bled properly...But that's rectified...

Most of the 400's built now rarely utilize the steam holes because modern cylinder head castings (particularly aluminum) dissipate heat much better because of redesigned water passages. In addition as Jesse and Cork pointed out, modern cooling systems are vastly superior to those found when the 400 was in its heyday as a production motor (you know from 71-80 or whenever the cutoff was)... In addition you're talking about cracking heads, the 883 iron heads found on OEM 400's are notoriously thin in the deck area and are prone to cracking on ANY motor! Dart's Little 'M' block (which I use and have built TONS of motors off of) are also siamese bore motors and are actually designed off the original 400...They don't have steam holes in the decks. The 400 based dirt track motors we build don't utilize steam holes and they run 7000+ rpm sustained with no cooling issues in Arkansas (and other southern states) heat. The ONLY thing I do on high performance OEM 400 blocks is install deck plugs for additional rigidity, that's IT! I think a lot of people on this thread are discounting new technology applied to old technology; the same old arguments don't wash. The same can be said of the compression issue...I still fight with a very close friend of mine who owns a speed shop over compression ratio and pump gas. He's stuck in the 70's when unleaded came out and they were trying to use it on 11.00:1 motors with horribly inefficient combustion chambers and were having detonation..Yeah... But he still thinks that way and tells me I could make a lot more power if I'd drop the compression down to 10.00:1 from 11.00:1 on pump gas and crank more timing into it. What he doesn't seem to get is that combustion chamber (and cooling system) technology has come so far as to be able to run big compression on pump juice and not NEED the timing that was required "back in the day" to make max thump... It's the same argument, guys...
-Jeb

 

Jburnett,

Very well said. :cheers:

The AFR heads have a 3/4 inch deck with pretty much is like comparing apples to bowling ***** in the case of the stock iron heads.

As I pointed out before. Look at the design changes that are made in the new LS1 engines to make them better. Can't hardly compare l98 designed motors to it effectively. Christ you just sneeze at them and they run in the 11s.

I would imagine in the future they will have cars that are running in the 11s from the factory with a few free mods. :thumbs:

 

You'll get no argument from this old coot! :lol: Learn sump'in new every day. As for Light84Vette and the turbos....the key word here would be Forged.

:chevy


[Modified by Curveit, 5:07 AM 8/19/2003]

 

Thanks for the respone ski_dwn_it,

The engine builders are pretty good, we bought an engine for a caddy a year ago, no probs. So the 406 would be pretty cool. :yesnod: :cool:

Anyway, I ordered it with forged pistons at 8.5 to 1 compression,( Curveit you probably already knew I was :thumbs:) thing is I have a restricted TPI Unit for it to bolt up to. Thinking that I could port it and still have power, others are now telling me I wont make any good power out of it with that setup b/c the TPI wont flow. Is that true? Or can I port the snot out of it and still have it flow at a medium or "okay" rate? :confused:

As far as cooling goes, have you upgraded your radiator or something? Bigger water pump? Upgraded electric fans?

 

Light84,

The TPI intake will kill that motor. You shouldn't really waste the time, but not sure what your future plans are exactly. Heads, Cam Intake etc all should be matched up.

With the prospect of turbos in the future, you will need awesome heads and a very good intake. I would not settle for anything less than 300 CFM on either the heads or the intake. But trust me, your talking big money for the top end. I would say you will spend upwards of 5-6 thousand just for heads/intake.

The shortblock is typically the cheap part. Heads/intake/cam is where the motor will be a either a killer or a toad.

I would seriouisly plan this approach out very well if you want to be happy with the entire buildup.

I wish I could be more spefic, but you can really only answer many of the questions. :cheers:

 

damn, what should I do then? Porting it wont help either would it? :confused: