Some of you I'm sure seen Corky post on his A/F ratio rational, and he mentioned that I had some pretty shocking/amazing news, but he did not want to spill the beans.

Well Yes I do after yesterdays runs at Keystone.

The news is I ran a 10.7@128 when I put all my plug wire on......Ok just kidding, sorry I know that is what a few of you that IMed me were expecting..as much as I would like to tell you all that is what happened it didn't :(

However I was able to do some tests on my converter that proved to be pretty shocking. Mind you, I have a vigilante 3200 stall single disk lock-up converter. All summer long I have been wanting to disconnect the TC lockup controller off the tranny, but either other tests conflicted or eliminations etc kept me from pulling the trigger.

Well yesterday I did try it and here is how it played out.....DA was ~2600-2900 all day. Much worse than last weeks 600s :(

RUN 1...Nothing altered from the week before except the spark plugs changed/cut back .035 gap, and camber brackets changed.

RT .587
60 1.528
330 4.552
1/8 7.091
mph 96.15
1000 9.317
1/4 11.199 (not bad for ~2800' DA)
mph 119.87 (lower than last weeks 121-122)

RUN 2

RT .535
60 1.517
330 4.543
1/8 7.088
mph 95.47
1000 9.317
1/4 11.195
mph 121.80(MPH is back using the same lane! WTF!)

Well after that round I came back to the pits and told Corky/Dad I was going to unhook my torque converter lockup and see what happened. Thinking I had nothing really to loose, and figuring that I would loose MPH/ET BIGTIME, figured it would be a neat test. The only real difference between Corky and I are the TCs, so I wanted to try this.

I got it disconnected and went out to the lanes for my next run. All things equal, DA maybe varying between the above posted numbers. (Same lane as above runs!)

Went to do my burnout and not sure if there just wasn't enough water or what, and I knew my one wheel was not spinning. So I tried as easy as possible to get out of the burnout. And the rear slammed pretty hard
:skep: ENough the track official turned around to take a look...I tried to do it again, and the same thing happened so I just moved up to stage.

On the launch I could feel some slipping

RUN3
RT .580
60 1.526
330 4.559
1/8 7.104
mph 95.81
1000 9.333
1/4 11.213
mph 121.73

Ok. this is where it gets weird. One would expect much more reduced MPHs, but it remained right on target.

Second, one at first glance would say, yeah you slowed down though. But did I. Obviously the hook was not great, but nearly up to par. Lets break the slips down in more detail:

RUN_________60'=>1/8__________1/8=>1/4

1___________5.563______________ 4.108
2___________5.571______________ 4.107
3___________5.578______________ 4.109

I would say when beaking the slips down that way, which is the best way to see what your car is doing, negating the 60' time, which will vary the most, and effect the ET comparisons. When looking at the slips in this disection. I would have to say that unhooking the lock-up converter did NOT effect ET one bit. Nor did it effect MPH.

Now let me make it VERY clear that my converter is DEFINATELY locking up when I an runs 1 & 2. There is no doubt, you can feel it, see it (tach) and hear it.

My thoughts are this, if you can run the lockup with the same ETs, your better off not locking it, as that is what causes them to wear and possibly fail. This is for on the strip I talking about. On the street, you would want it locked.

What are you guy's thoughts? It shocked both Corky and I when I returned to the pits and looked at the slips.

I also have to say that I am pleased with the cars overall to turn the ETs is did in that air. I know a near 10sec run or VERY close is in it.

Comparing all the slips from last weeks Mason Dixon Track with ~600 DA, I only ran .04 slower this weekend with a DA of ~2000 more!

So either the plugs helped or the other little tweaks helped. Just have to put together a super 60' time, and some super air.

Man that 10s is tough to break. :cheers: :smash: :thumbs: :lurk:


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 7:54 PM 10/12/2003]


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 7:55 PM 10/12/2003]


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 7:55 PM 10/12/2003]

 

jesse i did some more thinking on this today maybe since it is the single disc clutch vigilante not the better 3 or 5 disk clutch vigilante maybe its trying to engage but is really slipping under the load in high gear and maybe that is why they do not recomend that type of converter for all out racing making serious power and they say to use the 3 or 5 disc instead

so the question isnt how much you did not lose but how much you are not gaining from the clutch not locking correctly :cheers:


[Modified by CORKVETTE1, 8:22 PM 10/12/2003]


[Modified by CORKVETTE1, 8:24 PM 10/12/2003]

 

Cork,

Yeah I thought of that yesterday as well, maybe even mentioned it, but there was a bunch going on, and talk about everything under the sun.

Its possible that its slipping, but the RPMS really bang down, then only come back up slowly. But that might be why the MPH on my car vary so greatly.

Sounds like more incentive to get it back to vigilante for a non-lockup. The more I think about it, I think you/we are right. That can be the only explination really. That settles it, the rear (for new clutches) and the TC are coming out tomorrow night!

Is that what it sounds like to the rest of you guys? Perhaps Corky and I are gazing at the stars differently than the rest of you. Lets hear what you think!

Thanks!

 

First run a test to see if the ECM is trying to lock up the TC during a WOT pass...I don't think it is.

Hook up a test light or a mini-LED in series with a 2.2 kOhm 1/4 Watt resistor across ALDL pins "F" & "A". When the ECM gives the TC lockup command the LED/light will go out and stay out; if the ECM is not trying to lock up the TC, the light will stay lit.

 

I've done the same test and pretty much the same results. No change in ET, and small if any change in mph. Now i have a switch to keep it unlocked it at the track

 

ralph and ski i still say they are slipping now i have a friend with a turbo buick from locked to unlock not too much change in et but 6-7 mph drop but that is on a 5 disc vigilante :cheers:


[Modified by CORKVETTE1, 11:00 PM 10/12/2003]

 

Interesting.....I am planning on doing a simular type of a test the next time I go to the track.

 

ski, were you turning a few hundred more RPMS in 'un-lock' mode?
While all my racing has been with THM350s/THM400s, I've always been told (for consistency reasons) to run 'un-locked' mode in my '82 (like it'd REALLY matter in a high-15 second Cross-Fire.....)
:rolleyes:

 

Corky, i think the key word there is TURBO. They're still pulling hard at the top end and probably slipping the converter quite a bit.....there SR engines are done buy then. At least mine doesn't seem to have enough power to overcome the the drop in rpms

 

ralph they are pulling hard but its all low end i think he shifts it at 4800 rpm but it is hard to imagine jesse losing 6-7 mph he would be hitting 128-130 mph so im not real sure thats what is happening either but i was shocked at his outcome so there is basicly no reason to have a lockup except for better gas mileage on the highway but i still got 22 mpg on the drive to carlisle and back who knows? :cheers: