I am in the process of building a 406 to 420 SBC with a superram intake and I want to know what other people have been using for camshafts. The car will be street driven alot and bracket raced every weekend. I am currently using a 355 with the 219 Superam cam and I was planning to go with a larger cam for the larger 406 - 420. I called Lingerfelter for a recomendation and they still told me to use the 219 cam with the larger engine because they said it was designed for a 350 to 420. I do not really believe this is the best cam for a 406 or larger engine and want to know what everyone else is using on their 406 or larger engines. I was looking at the TPIS ZZ-409 cam as the smallest I would want to use but I am interested in other peoples cam choices. My goal is to have a very sreetable street car that will run 11's in any weather. My 355 is very streetable but will not run 11's in any weather.

 

ski_dwn_it has a 242/242 i think

 

Hooked up was still using a 219 in his SR car and in the 10s. A buddy of mine had a 1990 ZF6 car with an LPE 420ci SR engine and 219 that also went deep 10s. Just goes to show you don't need a crazy solid lifter to obtain some nutty goals. :)

 

If I remember right, Jesse's car is approaching the edge of streetability. If it were mine, I'd find something inbetween the 219 and Jesse's cam. I'd start looking in the neighborhood of 230 duration.

 

Yes, he's also running race gas isn't he?

 

the edge of streetability do we forget his car and my car are identical is edge of streeetability still able to drive the car round trip from pittsburgh to carlisle pa 400 mile round trip getting 22 mpg with the ac on and using 93 octane pump gas and still being able tp pull a 1.45 60 ft on way to a high 10 sec qtr mile at 125 mph and that is through a complete exhaust there is nothing gutted in the car everyting still works the only thing removed is the spare tire and jack but added a roll bar which is more than the tire and jack weighs too or how about sitting in a major pittsbugh pa rush rour traffic jam and never getting over 190 degrees i am sorry but if this sounds like edge of streetability i think the general should take a lesson off of me and build some of these cars ill bett they couldnt keep them in stock :cheers:


[Modified by CORKVETTE1, 6:24 PM 10/13/2003]

 

the race gas is a mix with pump gas to achieve about 100 octane and thats all it is not nessisary for daily driven :cheers:

 

I don't really think there are too many 355s that will run consistent 11s and be streetable, so it's not the cam to point your finger at. You don't say what kind of stall you're running, but be careful of going too much cam, or you'll be loping around every parking lot you pull in to. That, and staying in 1st or second gear from lite to lite :yesnod:
Crane makes a nice 222/230 that will put you on the edge of street manners if you don't want to stay with the proven combos for some reason, but I chose the 219 over that in my 420 buildup specifically for the streetability. Check with Jim Barth (421tpi Vette), he has had decent luck with that Crane I mentioned. :cheers:

 

But when the loud pedal goes down I'm willing to bet it isn't the same machine. Is it?

 

OK, I guess I don't remember right. :D

 

That's the same cam that MORE is using on my 396. Hope you're right about it being a nice cam.

Ron

 

back to the subject like what was mentioned before hookedup ran a 219 on a super ram me and jesse are running a 700-701 tpis solid roller me personally i am not fond of any hydralic cam i would recomend a regular solid or a solid roller any day of the week over a hydralic but i did mention to jesse too bad we couldnt have tried the 219 cam in his motor i was qurious how it would perform now everybody says the 219 cam is small believe me that 219 cam is a lot larger than people give it credit for :cheers:


[Modified by CORKVETTE1, 8:20 PM 10/13/2003]

 

I see your motor is getting close, congrats!!!!!!! :cheers: Keep me posted on that cam if you would please, mine is sitting on the darn shelf next to my 219 and I keep thinking twice about it :lol:

 

It's close. I'm starting to get jittery and nervous. :-)

All that's left at this point is chip tuning on the dyno and final checks. I'm hoping to pick it up this weekend or early next week from Charlotte. Crossing my fingers.

MORE had considerd using this 222/230 Crane or a 230/236 Comp Cams. Mike elected to go with the Crane. I suspect that it's due to the peak power RPM range on the cam vs the efficiency of the SR intake. The 230/236 may make power a bit above what the SR is good for.

I will definitely post about the car once it's back in my hands.

Take care,

Ron

 

Thanks for the replies. After reading all of the comments I am still up in the air on the cam choice. I do want to stay with a hydraulic roller cam other then that I am still weighing my options. I am leaning towards the 219 cam or possibly a cam which wasn't mentioned which is the ZZ-409 from TPIS. The 219 has 219 @ .050 intake and exhaust with 112 lobe seperation and .525 lift, the ZZ-409 has 226 @ .050 intake and exhaust witha 112 lobe seperation. The ZZ-409 appears to be a little larger duration then the 219 but all other characteristics appear to be the same. This should help the power band of the larger 406 engine, or at least I thought it should. I may also consider the split duration cams but I am not really sure if the exhaust flow needs the additional duration with the Superram and decient flowing heads. I need more information to determine when a split duration cam should be choosen over a non split design.

Thanks

 

I don't know if I can make your decision any easier, but I have a 224/230 Comp hydraulic roller in my 350. It is VERY streetable. My fiance' drives the car more than I do. If I can run that cam in a 350 for my woman, I think that a 420 could handle quite a bit more cam. My buddy runs a 230/236 and it is very streetable also. He has a little cam surge when in first gear, but his tune is kinda generic. I don't put much faith in quarter mile times. They can vary too much. Tires/temperature/driver/tranny/gears/ converter all play into ET's. I personally would strive for a good torque curve, and I believe that the 400+ smallblock with good heads can handle more cam than the 219. Just my .02. Good luck!!!

 

Not to cause more problems, but I have never seen any negative comments about the 219 cam. I however, have a very disgusting experience with this cam, or should I say manufacturer. If you check out my sig, you will see I have followed the proven upgrades including the 219 cam. Sorry, back on track - The cam is manufactured/cut wrong. My car runs like a fricking towtruck due to poor manufacturing. Max rwhp of 340 is at 4400rpm - stock is 4200, Cork's the one who said I have a problem after he saw my dyno run.

So I asked Corkvette to stop over to verify that the cam is bad, he did and it is. I have to pull it this winter and I will not put the replacement back in. Instead, I will be going with the same cam Corky and Ski_dwn_it are using. The main difference between their setup and mine is about 24 cubic inches.
The cam will be replaced by the manufacturer, but I will not be using it and will probably put it on ebay with the retro-roller lifters.

:rant:

Just my .02

 

What intake is your buddy using with the 230/236?

Ron

 

Just a couple of thoughts,

Right now I can only speak of my experiences with the SR & 219 combination. As you can see by the numbers in my sig that cam has been good for this combo of a big inch, pump gas friendly, street engine. Even though I think it's overgeared or under cammed right now, something will get changed soon and we'll see what happens. This is not to say that there isn't something out there that will or can perform better under certain circumstances. Corky & Jesse have proved the TPIS 701 solid roller can behave in a street & strip SR engine with 242/242 duration. Like Corky said, I think that 219 cam is larger than we believe, wonder what the duration is at .200" lift, anybody? Just because most of us look at the duration at .050" doesn't mean the cam is that small. With aggressive ramps the duration at .200" is longer, and that would put a lot more area under curve and account for better cylinder fill. Lots of the F-body guys like the CC-305 & 306 cam, anybone try that with a SR?

Whatever you choose, hope it works for ya', Dave :thumbs:


[Modified by hookedup, 12:27 AM 10/14/2003]

 

There are a few things I would like to interject.....

(1) My car is VERY streetable. Believe it or not, the car runs smoother (cruising), cooler, and better than it did with either the stock or the modded 350 in it. Not to mention when you put the hammer down, holy beans!

(2) The solid roller to me has many benifits. 1. Less chance of failure 2. Easier MORE PRECISE adjustement (did it once this entire summer, so its not something that needs done frequently). 3. Lighter components (easier on entire valve train)

(3) Our cars run on 93/94 octane80% of the time. Believe me when I say you do not have to go past 1/2 throttle to keep ahead of the pack on the street. I have actually run mine, since I set the lash a little tighter with only 94 octane at WOT with zero ping/knock. So most likely we could get away with 94 octane. But I am a "play it safe" sorta guy, and don't mind the few extra bucks on the 2 gals of race gas I add to my mixture on race days. Cost me about 10 dollars. Well worth the added protection.

The 219 is a proven winner, there is no doubt. unfortunately it seems to have a reputation as having some quality issues, which to me is unacceptable. Also I agree that its a MUCH MUCH larger cam than its given credit to be.

I will go back to what I always say. Unless your into experimenting and have a bunch of cash to burn, and even more time than cash. Go with a proven setup and copy it to a T. :cheers: