Cam question(s)
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 1
From: Shelton CT
Cam question(s)
I would like to know if there is a cam that is close to the LPE 219 profile for Flat tapped hydraulic , non roller engines?
LPE 219 specs : 219/219 Duration, .560/.560 lift w/1.6, 112CL (Superram version)
The nearest LPE cam for the superram I've found for a non roller block (My '85) was the LPE 213 cam. Specs are :
224/234 Duration, .496/.520 lift w/1.6, 112CL
When I ran these 2 in Desktop Dyno 2000, the 219 cam was about 40HP more than the same spec'd 213 cam and TONS more torque from 2000rpms to 5500rpms. I don't wish to switch to roller as that is probably out of my budget for next years' mods. The 213 cam seems to raise my powerband too high for my liking, as I'd like to keep the car under 6K for optimal shiftpoints.
Anyone know of a cam comparable to the 219 with maybe a little less lift (around .520-.530 max) that could work for me and keep me in the 'under 5500 rpm' powerband?
Thnx. :cheers:
LPE 219 specs : 219/219 Duration, .560/.560 lift w/1.6, 112CL (Superram version)
The nearest LPE cam for the superram I've found for a non roller block (My '85) was the LPE 213 cam. Specs are :
224/234 Duration, .496/.520 lift w/1.6, 112CL
When I ran these 2 in Desktop Dyno 2000, the 219 cam was about 40HP more than the same spec'd 213 cam and TONS more torque from 2000rpms to 5500rpms. I don't wish to switch to roller as that is probably out of my budget for next years' mods. The 213 cam seems to raise my powerband too high for my liking, as I'd like to keep the car under 6K for optimal shiftpoints.
Anyone know of a cam comparable to the 219 with maybe a little less lift (around .520-.530 max) that could work for me and keep me in the 'under 5500 rpm' powerband?
Thnx. :cheers:
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,381
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
Re: Cam question(s) (MrNuke)
Even if you got a cam custom ground "Like it" it won't be the same as roller cams offer much more aggresive ramps to that open the valves faster and longer in the same duration of a non-roller.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,506
Likes: 4
From: Vancouver,Wa.
Re: Cam question(s) (scorp508)
Even if you got a cam custom ground "Like it" it won't be the same as roller cams offer much more aggresive ramps to that open the valves faster and longer in the same duration of a non-roller.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Cam question(s) (MrNuke)
I suspect the 219 cam has steeper slopes permitted by the use of rollers.
You might try the 213 cam with a set of 1.7:1 RRs in your DeskTop Dyno to see how it compares with the 219 cam. This in one way to get more lift and another 2deg of duration, especially useful with a flat tappet cam.
You might try the 213 cam with a set of 1.7:1 RRs in your DeskTop Dyno to see how it compares with the 219 cam. This in one way to get more lift and another 2deg of duration, especially useful with a flat tappet cam.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 27,818
Likes: 8
From: CT
Cam question(s) (MrNuke)
Ahem...
".....I don't wish to switch to roller as that is probably out of my budget for next years' mods. ...."
:D
".....I don't wish to switch to roller as that is probably out of my budget for next years' mods. ...."
:D
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 0
From: Lakeland fl
Re: Cam question(s) (vader86)
You wont find a similiar cam. The only reason you can have that lift at that short of duration is with a roller. You could try the 1.7 rocker deal but those wouldnt be cheap either. 1.7's will also increase the effective duration of the 113, moving it up the rpm scale as well. I have heard that factory roller lifters can be used in a non-roller block, and that the retainers may or may not need to be clearanced, but the biggest part is tapping the valley for the three retainer (spider) bolts. Otherwise the cam will work. Most GM rollers have no mech fuel pump provision but thats no concern for vettes/EFI, the front of the cam has the "notch" for the retainer but its not needed if you use a roller buton and set end play- as you would with a "retrofit roller" cam anyway. I just bought a whole factory roller setup and when it arrives I will be testing it out for fitment on a 283, 350 and 400SB blocks that I have lying around. I will surely post if it works and is as easy as I have heard.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 32
From: The Top of Utah
Re: Cam question(s) (SBNova)
Dan Plett has made the OE roller cam to non-roller block conversion. He said it was pretty simple and straight forward. Do a search. He even had pictures. OEM roller lifers are less expensive than reto-fits, but that doesn't mean they will be within budget. When you bought that house you should have "wrapped" some engine improvements into the financing package. Good luck, and...
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Fredericksburg VA
Re: Cam question(s) (MrNuke)
This Comp Cams Extreme Energy flat tappet hydraulic:
Intake: 5443, (268/224/137), 0.509" w/ 1.6rockers, 108ILCA
Exhaust: 5201, (270/224/133), 0.501" w/ 1.6rockers, 116ELCA
will come very close to the LPE219/219HR when the port flow in the heads tends to plateau up over 0.500" lift. I used stock 113's in my example. This cam gave about 4 libra-feet less torque all across the midrange than the 219/219HR, and matched the power band. The XE flat tappet hydraulic series is frequently noisy, so many people just go with a solid flat tappet instead. Modern solids rival aggressive hydraulics for noise and maintenance.
Intake: 5443, (268/224/137), 0.509" w/ 1.6rockers, 108ILCA
Exhaust: 5201, (270/224/133), 0.501" w/ 1.6rockers, 116ELCA
will come very close to the LPE219/219HR when the port flow in the heads tends to plateau up over 0.500" lift. I used stock 113's in my example. This cam gave about 4 libra-feet less torque all across the midrange than the 219/219HR, and matched the power band. The XE flat tappet hydraulic series is frequently noisy, so many people just go with a solid flat tappet instead. Modern solids rival aggressive hydraulics for noise and maintenance.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 1
From: Shelton CT
Re: Cam question(s) (HeaderDesign.com)
This Comp Cams Extreme Energy flat tappet hydraulic:
Intake: 5443, (268/224/137), 0.509" w/ 1.6rockers, 108ILCA
Exhaust: 5201, (270/224/133), 0.501" w/ 1.6rockers, 116ELCA
will come very close to the LPE219/219HR when the port flow in the heads tends to plateau up over 0.500" lift. I used stock 113's in my example. This cam gave about 4 libra-feet less torque all across the midrange than the 219/219HR, and matched the power band. The XE flat tappet hydraulic series is frequently noisy, so many people just go with a solid flat tappet instead. Modern solids rival aggressive hydraulics for noise and maintenance.
Intake: 5443, (268/224/137), 0.509" w/ 1.6rockers, 108ILCA
Exhaust: 5201, (270/224/133), 0.501" w/ 1.6rockers, 116ELCA
will come very close to the LPE219/219HR when the port flow in the heads tends to plateau up over 0.500" lift. I used stock 113's in my example. This cam gave about 4 libra-feet less torque all across the midrange than the 219/219HR, and matched the power band. The XE flat tappet hydraulic series is frequently noisy, so many people just go with a solid flat tappet instead. Modern solids rival aggressive hydraulics for noise and maintenance.
I don't trust DD2000 too much either, but I have put in some people's combos and mine and it has been pretty close if not dead on on power curves, and power output.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Fredericksburg VA
Re: Cam question(s) (MrNuke)
I have the entire XE hydraulic flat tappet series profiles in my lobe library, so I just put together a flat tappet cam that would best simulate that aggressive 219/219 HR. The flat tappet cam is quicker from seat to 0.05" tappet lift than the roller, and the roller is quicker than the flat tappet from 0.05" to 0.200" tappet lift. So as it ended up the 224/224 flat tappet most closely simulated the 219/219 cam.
The 262XE cam? That is a mild cam. What induction system are you using?
The 262XE cam? That is a mild cam. What induction system are you using?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 1
From: Shelton CT
Re: Cam question(s) (HeaderDesign.com)
Full Superram setup with Pro Topline Lightning heads.
I want to stay around 5500rpms for the pwoerband, so I don't want to shift higher than 5500+- rpms between gears.
I want to stay around 5500rpms for the pwoerband, so I don't want to shift higher than 5500+- rpms between gears.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,381
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
Re: Cam question(s) (MrNuke)
I don't trust DD2000 too much either, but I have put in some people's combos and mine and it has been pretty close if not dead on on power curves, and power output.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Fredericksburg VA
Re: Cam question(s) (MrNuke)
Then you are in good shape. The length of SuperRam intake runners (plus length in the heads, too) will try to center the power peak at 5200RPM or maybe a little higher for some setups. The long length of the intake runners, plus the residual waves in the runners are responsible for this. This "tune" tries to put the power peak at 5200RPM or so regardless of cam selection or even displacement. You can force another power peak at higher RPM, but that is done in race-only engines because of the long cam timing and great heads needed to do the job.
Scorp is right: You can't correctly model the long-runner intake in DD2000. You also can't do an accurate cam design in DD2000. You will find very few good performance cams out there for the long-runner intake engine, but there are a some in the TURBO section on this page http://www.cmotorsports.com/engine/l...ft-design.html I don't know what advance or retard is ground into these cams, but they would need about 2 degrees advance.
Scorp is right: You can't correctly model the long-runner intake in DD2000. You also can't do an accurate cam design in DD2000. You will find very few good performance cams out there for the long-runner intake engine, but there are a some in the TURBO section on this page http://www.cmotorsports.com/engine/l...ft-design.html I don't know what advance or retard is ground into these cams, but they would need about 2 degrees advance.
