Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem???
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (corvette1990)
If the roller is below the sides of the rocker tip they are NOT self-aligning, as my CC catalog indicates.
So you need hardened guide plates (4802-8, raised or 4810-8, flat) for 3/8 studs & hardened pushrods (7808-16).
So you need hardened guide plates (4802-8, raised or 4810-8, flat) for 3/8 studs & hardened pushrods (7808-16).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 1
From: Bowie MD
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (65Z01)
Thanks, I am straight now. As I see they are non-aligning and need the str0nger guide plates. I already have the COMP HD pushrods. where did my xmas summit catalog go? Oh its online...nm..... :party:
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 0
From: Bucks county Pa
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (corvette1990)
So let me get this striaght. The factory installed guide plates would be in adequate to use non-self-aligning RR?
If so what size pushrods does a 90 have?
And will I need to change studs for guideplates?
If so what size pushrods does a 90 have?
And will I need to change studs for guideplates?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 0
From: Beavercreek OR
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (65Z01)
I have to agree that the wear is from the poly lock but I don't see how it could effect the rocker. With my ProMagnums the poly lock cannot get low enough to wear the rocker unless the rocker below the poly lock wears away.
In any case it sounds like a good idea to go to the ProMagnums. You need to verify that those guide plates & push rods are indeed hardened. Take the part number from them. If they are hardened it's a good bet that the push rods also are.
You should also verify that push rod length is correct. Slowly rotate the engine while watching were the roller reverses at each side of the valve top. The roller travel should be centered across the valve tip with equal margains at each reversal point.
In any case it sounds like a good idea to go to the ProMagnums. You need to verify that those guide plates & push rods are indeed hardened. Take the part number from them. If they are hardened it's a good bet that the push rods also are.
You should also verify that push rod length is correct. Slowly rotate the engine while watching were the roller reverses at each side of the valve top. The roller travel should be centered across the valve tip with equal margains at each reversal point.
I have the new Promags and hope to put them in and have them adjusted ove the weekend. We will check the pushrod length at that time. Assuming we get that done I have a few other small things (hopefully) to button up and will tow it to the mufffler shop on Tuesday and drive it home from there :rolleyes:
We shall see :skep:
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ? Problem? (blk90rdstr)
blk90rdstr, yes neither your OEM pushrods nor the guide plates are hardened. When you pull the guide plates you will notice that they are not scuffed, because the push rods have not touched them. They were used only during assembly to roughly index the pushrods.
So you need to pull the rocker studs to install hardened guides.
Your OEM pushrod length is 7.195" x 5/16" dia.
I wanted additional valve train rigidity so I installed 7/16" studs (stock are 3/8"), hardened guide plates and ProMagnum RRs for 7/16" studs.
So you need to pull the rocker studs to install hardened guides.
Your OEM pushrod length is 7.195" x 5/16" dia.
I wanted additional valve train rigidity so I installed 7/16" studs (stock are 3/8"), hardened guide plates and ProMagnum RRs for 7/16" studs.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (86Moon)
Sorry to read about your problem.
Who set up the valve train geometry on the engine?
Where'd you get the rocker studs, lifters, pushrods?
Others have already said it, but you never use self-aligning rockers and guide plates at the same time. One or the other, and the ones that came on the engine aren't realy guide plates, they're only used during assembly and should be discarded and actual guide plates installed if you opt to go that route.
Jake
[Modified by JAKE, 1:19 AM 12/27/2003]
Who set up the valve train geometry on the engine?
Where'd you get the rocker studs, lifters, pushrods?
Others have already said it, but you never use self-aligning rockers and guide plates at the same time. One or the other, and the ones that came on the engine aren't realy guide plates, they're only used during assembly and should be discarded and actual guide plates installed if you opt to go that route.
Jake
[Modified by JAKE, 1:19 AM 12/27/2003]
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 0
From: Beavercreek OR
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (JAKE)
Jake, I bought this motor from a forum member and it has about 10,000 mi on it. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=622923 It was in the car running at the time I purchased it. I had someone I trusted meet the guy and drive the car. There were no extensive diagnostics done at the time. I have reciepts for many of the new parts and machine shop labor. It's not clear to me who set up the heads after they were received from AFR.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (86Moon)
Jake, I bought this motor from a forum member and it has about 10,000 mi on it. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=622923 It was in the car running at the time I purchased it. I had someone I trusted meet the guy and drive the car. There were no extensive diagnostics done at the time. I have reciepts for many of the new parts and machine shop labor. It's not clear to me who set up the heads after they were received from AFR.
Seems that it was just a matter of the geometry not being set correctly. Shouldn't be difficult to straighten that out.
Valve train geometry is one of those areas that far too many people fail to pay attention to; not at all uncommon.
Jake
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 48
From: Lakeport CA
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (JAKE)
Just another $.02... When I origionally installed my non-self aligning 1.6 rockers, I installed new 7/16 studs & used the stock guide plates for about 2 years. They worked okay but because those guide plates weren't hardened they began to wear. At the rebuild, I replaced w/ hardened & all is well again.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,292
Likes: 0
From: Beavercreek OR
Re: Rocker Roller Problem! Guide Plates and Self Aligning RR's ??????? Problem??? (Trog)
Damn, things sure move fast around here! Last post on page two already! Thanks everyone for your help. :flag Turns out the guys who said they were running both recanted after further investigation, but they did get the rockers in for me. The springs had been hitting on the bottom at some point as well. The engine sounds good. Hope there is no major damage.
She's gone to the exhaust shop today. :D
She's gone to the exhaust shop today. :D
