I've asked this before but still have not been able to fix it. I know alot about cars and do my own repairs so I should be able to fix it.
Heres the problem, I have an 84 stock engine, was a 4+3 but now has a Richmond 6 speed. It will start fine when cold, but once it warms up and the engine is hot, it will almst never start for about 3-4 hours, when everything is cool again. I've replaced the starter 3 times, VATS starter relay, clutch starter switch and still nothing. When I turn the key I wont get anything. The battery gague will go down slightly like it would if it was starting.

I've checked many wires and everything looks fine.

I love my car but hate driving it with this problem.

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

Does the starter have a heat shield?
Check grounds.Check wire condition.

 

It had a heat shield on the second starter but didnt help. I looked over most of the wiring and didnt see any thing bad. Any specific wires I should check?

 

A friend of mine had a similar problem with his 84. His would start when hot if he sprayed starting fluid in the intake otherwise it wouldn't start until the engine cooled a bit. There are two parts that work together in the starting mode. An oil pressure switch and a fuel pump relay. There has to be a certain amount of oil pressure for the engine to run. The fuel pump relay bypasses the oil pressure switch so the car will start because there is no oil pressure until it starts. If I remember correctly the pump relay will kick off after a coupe seconds because there should be oil pressure built up by then. His relay was defective and not bypassing the oil pressure switch so the engine could start. It only happened when the engine was hot. The pump relay in mounted on the drivers side fire wall near the distributor. If you have the shop manual there should be a test you can conduct to determine if the relay is bad.

 

WOW never heard of that!!!!

I'm gonna check that out.

You mentioned starting fluid. Did his engine turn over or not because mine does not I dont even get a click.

 

I went through this with my 85. It would be dead, not even a click. The voltmeter would drop to 10.9v and nothing.

There was no rhyme or reason to the time it took to start again. It turned out to be the starter itself.

Heat.

After checking a ton of things, one day I just took a bottle of water and squirted the starter body like a madman. 2 seconds later it started right up.
I swapped the starter for a good quality unit and put on a shield. No problems since.

Hope you get it figured out.

 

I've tried 3 starters so far, one from NAPA and one from the dealer, still no luck. I think that ruled out the starter.

Trust me I've had experience with bad starters!!!!!!!!!!

 

George one quick question, was his fuel pump relay bad or the oil pressure relay, I'm cofused on that part.

THANKS FOR THE INFO!!!!!!!!

 

Never mind fuel pump relay
:rolleyes:

 

Are you telling us in the origional post, that the engine doesn't crank? That is what this sounds like.If that is correct, the fuel pump relay has nothing to do with it. The fp relay can affect whether the injectors get fuel, or not, and whether it starts, or not. But it won't stop it from cranking. Good luck, and...

RACE ON!!!

 

Yea it dosent even turn over, no click or nothing.

 

assuming the battery connections and ground is good, nuetral safety switch is working correctly and there is no activity at the solenoid i would check the condition of the fusable links near the starter and near the battery??

 

Thats right I forgot to mention that I put a meter at the starter while it wouldnt start and only had 4??ish volts at the starter. Battery is good its a newer Optima.

I'll look into the fusible links under the battery...didnt think of that.

THANKS

 

Measure the battery terminal volts when you attempt a crank but the starter won't turn. The voltage must not fall below 9.0 volts or the battery is discharged, at the end of its life, or you have poor cable connections to the battery. The starter draws 100+ amps and you MUST have low resistance connections from the battery to the starter. Remove the battery cables (neg first) and clean the battery terminals and the cable lugs until they are bright and replace (neg last). Before you measure the batt volts when attempting a hot crank, measure the battery terminal volts, 12.0 volts or below indicates a discharged battery and 12.9 or higher indicates a charged battery. You must also have a low resistance connection to the engine block. The battery ground cable goes to a frame bolt and there is a braided wire that goes from the frame bolt to the left rear head. Starter current flows through the block , through the wire on the head and then through the negative wire on the battery. You can also measure the voltage drop from the neg batt terminal to the block when you attempt a crank. It should not be more than about 0.5 volts or you have a poor ground connection. If there is 4 volts on the starter, then 8 volts is being dropped elsewhere from the battery and its wires and this is what is preventing your starter from cranking. Is the starter too hot to keep your finger on? If so, then your starter is heat soaked and will not run. Run your garden hose on it and cool it down with a hot engine and try a crank to prove that it is a too hot starter. Good luck.

 

When you find out what's going on, be sure to get back to us and let us know what was wrong. The Corvette has a whole set of functions that it goes through before the engine will run. Not like a regular car. If it doesn't sense that it's got enough oil pressure when the starter is turning over, it won't "close the loop" for lack of a better term, and it won't let the engine start. I guess that's a engine protection feature. I've read here in the past, that you should remove the key from the ignition completely and it will reset and start the process all over again. If you don't remove the key it'll remember it's last reading. Features way ahead of their time.

 

He wishes !!! It is difficult to heat soak a starter on an engine that won't crank...Let alone run. The rest is good trouble shooting, though. I am curious whether that 4 volts is at the battery cable connection on the starter, or the "start" terminal, with the key in the "crank" position.

Netnarc2,
I don't think this applies to a "stone aged" '84.

RACE ON!!!

 

The 4 volts was at the start terminal not the battery connection. The battery connection was at 12.5ish.

The way I figured it, its between the key and starter and so I replaces the few items in the route to no avail. Could it be the ignition switch?

 

If the battery volts was 12.5 while the starter was on and its large cable connection volts was 4, the you have 8.5 volts of drop in the wires going to the starter. The trouble lies in these wires and connections, NOT in the ignition switch. The ignition switch merely applies 12v to the starter solenoid which doesn't draw much current. You can find out which wire has too much resistance by measuring the voltage from the neg batt to the left head ground connection while attempting a crank and then measure the voltage from the positive batt to the large wire on the starter also while attempting a crank. Each wire usually has less than 0.5 volts or so drop, but on one or both wires, you have 8.5 volts, WAY TOO MUCH. You must have clean tight connections on the battery cable connections. You must have clean tight connections of the negative wire to the frame and on the left rear head. You must have clean tight connections on the large wire on the starter, and you must have a clean tight connection between the starter case and the engine block. When you find where the 8.5 volts is occurring, there you find why your starter doesn't crank.

 

I think you misunderstood. What I meant was the small wire that goes to the starter solenoid is the one that only had four volts. That wire is very small 16ga? and is the only wire connected to that terminal. The large 4ga? wire that goes from the battery to the starter is at 12.5

And the battery connections are clean and tight. Im **** about that.

 

ffvettman, check out this website; http://www.c4vettes.com/l98.htm