Good Cam Choice?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 7
Good Cam Choice?
Now that I have the Z06 done for the time being I am thinking about doing the cam in my Ruby
To those running a cam in a stock headed car what size are your running. would going to a 224/224 upper .500 lift be a problem on the LT1.
I have been so submerged with the LS6 that I have let my following of what is going on in the LT motors slip a little.
All suggestions and advice are much appreciated
Add: Also, with the addition of the long tubes I have gained upper rpm power but my low end has fallen some. I would like something that runs strong up to red line but would like to regain some grunt
[Modified by Ruby6spd, 4:12 PM 4/21/2004]
To those running a cam in a stock headed car what size are your running. would going to a 224/224 upper .500 lift be a problem on the LT1.
I have been so submerged with the LS6 that I have let my following of what is going on in the LT motors slip a little.
All suggestions and advice are much appreciated
Add: Also, with the addition of the long tubes I have gained upper rpm power but my low end has fallen some. I would like something that runs strong up to red line but would like to regain some grunt
[Modified by Ruby6spd, 4:12 PM 4/21/2004]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Ruby6spd)
Wow! You've asked a question that's going to generate a lot of differing opinions. So here's mine:
I believe 224 is too much duration for a 350 engine that is daily driver AND is running stock heads; I wouldn't go over 218/ or 219 (such as the LPE grind).
With better heads and full length headers, yes, 224 would be the most I'd ever go with, but my gut tells me that 224 is still too much cam for a basically stock block 350.
Keep the Lobe Separation Angle on the wide side; at least 112 with the 218; with the 224 I'd open it to 114.
I'd choose very aggressive ramp rates to get as much area under the curve as possible; such as CompCams Xtreme series or the comparable ones that Crane sells.
The rule of thumb is that you'll always be happier with a camshaft that is a little too small than one that is a little too big (duration wise).
Just another opinion.
Jake
[Modified by JAKE, 3:36 PM 4/21/2004]
I believe 224 is too much duration for a 350 engine that is daily driver AND is running stock heads; I wouldn't go over 218/ or 219 (such as the LPE grind).
With better heads and full length headers, yes, 224 would be the most I'd ever go with, but my gut tells me that 224 is still too much cam for a basically stock block 350.
Keep the Lobe Separation Angle on the wide side; at least 112 with the 218; with the 224 I'd open it to 114.
I'd choose very aggressive ramp rates to get as much area under the curve as possible; such as CompCams Xtreme series or the comparable ones that Crane sells.
The rule of thumb is that you'll always be happier with a camshaft that is a little too small than one that is a little too big (duration wise).
Just another opinion.
Jake
[Modified by JAKE, 3:36 PM 4/21/2004]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Re: Good Cam Choice? (JAKE)
I like my 224/230 CC, but I don't have stock anything. A cam in the 224 duration will not bring back your low end, but with 4.10's I wouldn't think that it is a problem. I would ultimately say that 224 is too much duration if you have no plans to port the heads. Just my .02 Good luck!
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Ruby6spd)
The Hot Cam is probably your best bet for retaining low end power.
On stock heads it is very easy to "over cam" the engine and it'll run like crap. You'll give up a bunch on the low end and the heads won't flow enough to support it on the top end.
A friend of mine tried this on his car. We had the same setup, long tubes, stock heads, etc. I went with the LT4 Hot Cam, he went with some very aggresive POS that get got through Lunati, since he works for Holley. On the dyno he made less power than me all the way across the board, at the peak he finally made it back up to about the same level I was.
Later we both added a good set of cylinder heads. He still made less power up until a point where his cam really started to pull. By the time it was all said and done he made something like 10 hp more than me. Looking at the overall powerband my car made more than his did. That little extra at the peak didn't compensate for all he gave up down low.
On stock heads it is very easy to "over cam" the engine and it'll run like crap. You'll give up a bunch on the low end and the heads won't flow enough to support it on the top end.
A friend of mine tried this on his car. We had the same setup, long tubes, stock heads, etc. I went with the LT4 Hot Cam, he went with some very aggresive POS that get got through Lunati, since he works for Holley. On the dyno he made less power than me all the way across the board, at the peak he finally made it back up to about the same level I was.
Later we both added a good set of cylinder heads. He still made less power up until a point where his cam really started to pull. By the time it was all said and done he made something like 10 hp more than me. Looking at the overall powerband my car made more than his did. That little extra at the peak didn't compensate for all he gave up down low.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,030
Likes: 6
From: Maryland
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Nathan Plemons)
I like my comp cam--214/224 @050 dur, .566 lift (w/1.6rr's), 112 LSA.
This is less agressive in terms of duration than the hot cam, but with better lift to take advantage of my ported heads.
Then again, your heads are stock--maybe the Hot cam would be just as good?
This is less agressive in terms of duration than the hot cam, but with better lift to take advantage of my ported heads.
Then again, your heads are stock--maybe the Hot cam would be just as good?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,303
Likes: 714
From: Bartlett IL
Re: Good Cam Choice? (sothpaw2)
Depending on lift and the type of cam, you may need to upgrade your springs. If you're aren't going to do that, that will narrow your choices.
I would make 2 recommendations to you:
1. Read anything you can by David Vizard on cam selection.
2. Get the flow numbers for your heads and give them to Motors and Machines. For $40, they will calculate an optimum cam profile based on what
characteristics you'd like to see from the cam. I just installed a cam based on the specs they laid out for me.
I would make 2 recommendations to you:
1. Read anything you can by David Vizard on cam selection.
2. Get the flow numbers for your heads and give them to Motors and Machines. For $40, they will calculate an optimum cam profile based on what
characteristics you'd like to see from the cam. I just installed a cam based on the specs they laid out for me.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 7
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Dominic Sorresso)
Thanks for all the tips, I was thinking of just going with the hot cam and 1.6 rockers and be done with it. I figure with the stock heads I would be able to get in the low 300's to the wheels which I would be happy with. I'm not trying to break any records with this car, just make is it a strong street runner that can stand up for itself if the occasion presents itself.
What are the #'s on the hot cam - 214/218, something like that right?
What are the #'s on the hot cam - 214/218, something like that right?
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,670
Likes: 4
From: Severna Park MD
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Ruby6spd)
I love my hot cam! I did do cam and heads at the same time, then LT headers and 3 inch pipes at the same time, so I can't sort out what one component did vs stock.
My engine has two weaknesses, just off idle it's a bit rough, so much that I'll never be driving any prom queens in a parade. In the quarter it is still a bit weak until it gets up to 3 grand, but your 4.10 gears would take care of that. You'll be up in revs and out of 1st quick enough it will be no problem.
You heard my car last spring, the idle is lumpy enough to draw attention at cruise night. I wouldn't go any wilderr on cam selection for a street car.
[Modified by FELNGR8, 10:22 AM 4/23/2004]
My engine has two weaknesses, just off idle it's a bit rough, so much that I'll never be driving any prom queens in a parade. In the quarter it is still a bit weak until it gets up to 3 grand, but your 4.10 gears would take care of that. You'll be up in revs and out of 1st quick enough it will be no problem.
You heard my car last spring, the idle is lumpy enough to draw attention at cruise night. I wouldn't go any wilderr on cam selection for a street car.
[Modified by FELNGR8, 10:22 AM 4/23/2004]
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
Re: Good Cam Choice? (VictorRussell'92)
the hot cam is ok but there are much better choices in the same duration range that will make more hp with a better idle.
i have the hot cam in an in an 81 vette with a zz430 engine and it runs good but i really think gm boosted their #'s a little on thier crate engines.
i have the hot cam in an in an 81 vette with a zz430 engine and it runs good but i really think gm boosted their #'s a little on thier crate engines.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 7
Re: Good Cam Choice? (FELNGR8)
You heard my car last spring, the idle is lumpy enough to draw attention at cruise night. I wouldn't go any wilderr on cam selection for a street car.[Modified by FELNGR8, 10:22 AM 4/23/2004]
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: Good Cam Choice? (mos90)
Hot cam is 224/224 .525/.525
It's 218/228 .525/.525 112 :cheers:
BTW, if you want a few more horses over the typical hotcam setup go with a set of 1.7 rockers. That'll kick your lift up to .557 The LT1 heads are still flowing good at that point, even stock.
[Modified by Nathan Plemons, 10:35 AM 4/23/2004]
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
Likes: 4
From: rome ny
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Ruby6spd)
4006
High Performance street w/modified computer, heads, intake, exhaust, gears
230/236
.510/.521
.544/.555
112
2200-5800
$269.95
4005
High Performance street 2000+ converter, gears, choppy idle
224/230
.503/.510
.536/.544
112
1900-5600
$269.95
i would consider these comp cams grinds over hotcam. much better
High Performance street w/modified computer, heads, intake, exhaust, gears
230/236
.510/.521
.544/.555
112
2200-5800
$269.95
4005
High Performance street 2000+ converter, gears, choppy idle
224/230
.503/.510
.536/.544
112
1900-5600
$269.95
i would consider these comp cams grinds over hotcam. much better
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Nathan Plemons)
mos90, I have the 224/230 in my car and it definately doesn't idle better than the Hot Cam. I like the idle and don't have problems with it, but it is a bit lumpy. My car is also far from stock. I have gears, convertor, ported heads, headers, TB, and all the little goodies including a tune. From what he has mentioned, I think that the first cam you have listed is WAY to big. The second one is even a bit long on the duration side if he has no plans to improve the rest of the engine/drivetrain. Again, this is just my side of it.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 32,782
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From: Former NCM Drag Racing coordinator, National director Corvette Challenge Spring Hill, Tennessee: Whiting, New Jersey
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
Re: Good Cam Choice? (Ruby6spd)
Call Cartek and they can sell you my head and cam combo complete, You wcan't beat the performance.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 7
Re: Good Cam Choice? (ANTI VENOM)
At this point I want looking to have a nice lope at idle but nothing extreme. The Cam in my Z06 is about extreme as you can get and believe me, after being in the car for anything over and hour can be tiresome.
Thanks for all the suggestions - I will post my final results when I come to a conclusion
Thanks for all the suggestions - I will post my final results when I come to a conclusion