There only about two things that will keep one of these systems from running.

IF You Have Fuel Pressure:

Ignition module is bad in the distributor OR the pickup coil in the distributor is
bad.

 

JB, been following the post, I believe simple ohm reading on each of the inj will determine which is bad. I had a similar porblem on a 90 and I had a bad inj. this is a batch fire (all inj pulse at once) that is the reasson for all the plugs fouling. Disconnect the inj wires and take a reading on each inj. the bad one will be significantly different then the others. Hope this helps. The only codes i got were related to a rich condition.

 

Jeff,

You can get a used ECM off ebay for around $40. I have one in my garage 'just in case' things like this happen. I've swapped it out a few times just to verify I wasn't having a problem with the ECM.

 

ok..to everybody following this:

I checked for the smell of gas out the exhaust when cranking....oh yeh.....bigtime smell....the engine is definitely flooded...

I still haven't gotten around to checking the injectors but plan on this next with a simple ohm meter....anything under 10 ohms is considered bad right guys? and obviously anything that is very off from the other injectors is definitely bad.

Craig: I already purchased an ECM from advance auto here....cost me $95 bucks...so not too bad....but I do have a question....maybe you can answer....my service # for my orginial ECM is # 16197128....the number on the new Reman/Cardone ECM from advance is # 16198260....I did some reading before trying this ECM and found a website that crossed reference both these numbers and also gave a third # of 1227727.

I already put this ECM in and before trying to crank the car over...ran my scanner for codes...none.... triple code 12's....I then triggered the vats...to see if the new ECM would throw a code....code 46 for the vats was thrown....I then waited the 4 minutes and then tried the car.....still no start condition...

If I have 1 or more injectors gone bad....would this cause the ECM not to pulse? cause we did test one of the injector connectors .....we pulled it off the injector and put a test light to it....I did not see the famous blinking light (not sure if I am using the correct tool or if this blinking is really faint?)....all I noticed was like a steady light that seemed to flicker a tad but more noticable just seem to dim while I cranked the car over...

so.....hmmmmm I am going to go check each injector right now...with my ohm meter.....I will get back to everybody

 

ok.....heres the newest update:

tested all injectors....all are over 10ohms....16.4-16.7 to be exact....so looks like injectors are ok?

tested all injectors for pulses.....NO PULSES.....

where exactly does the ECM get its information to pulse the injectors? I think JFB said from my distributor....(cause on a 1990 I don't have that dreaded OPTI) thank god!...lol

I will have to double check the wiring now from the distributor to the ECM wherever the pulses are coming from....keep in mind....we ruled out pretty much the ECM being the problem since I already changed it out and tested this new ECM for codes. BUT if anybody thinks that a 2nd ECM is bad please explain any logic in it....as right now Iam open for suggestion.

AGAIN TO SUM UP NEWEST FINDINGS
all injectors appear to be ok and are stuck open in the flooded state.
No reference pulses being detected at the connectors to the injectors.
2nd ECM is in the car right now.
Going to have to double check the distributors wires coming from (I believe its the ignition module?) that goto the ECM which tell it to pulse the injectors.....(if this is off please let me know as Iam by no means a mechanic) lol

thanks for the help....hopefully get this fixed soon.

jeff :cool:

 

:iagree:

Here's my vote. Did you pull mulitple plugs, or just one? If several plugs are fouled with fuel, then all 8 injectors are hanging wide open. You either have an ECM issue, or something grounding between the ECM and the injectors. If it's just one, you have a leaking injector. All 8 don't fail at once.

Just because the ECM is "new" doesn't make it good. I'm thinking you either have a bad ECM or the wrong one in the car. Take the ECM back where it came from and exchange it. Make certain they give you the correct unit, make sure you discharge any static before touching it on the install, and make sure the harness is seated correctly and firmly.

If you still have trouble after installing the new ECM, it's time to look for where the short to ground is in the wiring.

JFB is right on the money.

 

OK
Here is my $.02 the ecm controls the pulse but the distributer i believe is the reference point for the ecm and telling when to pulse the injectors.How else would it know when to send a pulse.As for the car missing a faulty distributor or electronic internals would cause this.I would look for a wire that has grounded coming out of the distributor.Or just disconnect the distributor and then check your injectors for state change pulse or no pulse.
The (spark) and injector pulse are controlled in some way buy the position of the engine.
( ignition module ) . You already know the ecm basically is good if the ecm is getting a false reading wouldn't this result be the same as what you are currently getting?
Ok this is just some ideas i had while reading the post i might be wrong i might be right.
I think back to basics might be your best course of action. I believe the ecm is getting a bad reading from the ignition module or something.

 

In case you ignored this, here it is again:

There only about two things that will keep one of these systems from running.
IF You Have Fuel Pressure:

Ignition module is bad in the distributor OR the pickup coil in the distributor is
bad.

 

hi venutjim....nope not ignoring you.....saw it....

I know I have fuel pressure....just don't know how much.....(gonna buy a guage today and check)

Ignition module was pulled out and checked on a tester......they told me it was ok...(though this still makes me weary....) gonna buy a new one today and also double check my wiring....

Pickup Coil: as I have already had that problem about 2 years ago...I agree.....I already have changed that out....

so....hmmmm thats where Iam at.

 

I think you should go back and check timing, I mean is the rotor facing #1 plug when it should be (at TDC on the firing side). If your timing chain jumped then it would cause rough running and then once shut off may not start again. You might have spark but not at the correct time.

 

as bad as the news may seem, this is definately an option. On my '85, this is what happened. I was in the parking lot at work and started the car then it died. Tried cranking and cranking and it wouldn't start. Same symptoms you describe... I had spark, I had fuel, but no run. Put the timing mark on TDC for number 1 and see if the rotor is pointing in the right place. Pull a valve cover and see if any rockers are crooked. If the timing chain has jumped teeth you might be bending pushrods... I did.

:(

 

well to everybody with the timing in question....I understand fully and can appreciate that....but this still remains.....why when I shoot starting fluid into the butterflies on the throttlebody, the car runs.....I mean...if I sat there long enough with the can....the car would run off the stuff.....it doesn't slap or make any odd noises either when running on it for the second I shoot the stuff in..... :confused:


[Modified by XtremeVette, 10:24 AM 4/28/2004]

 

My '85 did that too when the timing chain was off. I put gas in the vacuum tube for the brake booster to the intake. The car would actually try to run for some reason.

:confused:

 

It may run because starting fluid is highly flamable and any spark will ignite it. Marcho Polo I would think that the reason it worked for you was that you were pouring gas into directly into the plenum so no matter when the spark was firing it got gas and would run. Im not sure about this but I would rule it out using the method that Marcho Polo outlined.

 

ok....this is it....what everybody's been waiting to here lol...


I FOUND THE PROBLEM....I SHOULD SAY....PROBLEMS.....PLURAL

#1....BAD IGNITION MODULE: as a tip.....don't anybody go by what the autoparts stores tell you....in that they check it and if it works or not.....the ignition modules can be like mine and be working BUT be intermitten and cause problems....

#2....BAD WIRING TO THE IGNITION MODULE: as VetNutJim clearly stated.....the ignition module or the Pickup coil......thanks VetNutJim!....I double checked the wiring and found that I crossed all 3 wires....THUS the reference pulse going to the ECM......MY FAULT....clearly....I admit that one...cause after fixing this....the car ran...I then tried it again....no run.....and again....same thing....tap on the module....VRRRROOOm....right up....

#3 Remember I mentioned the fans coming on and the temperature going through the roof....well now that the ignition module is fixed and new...I am getting a code 15.....high voltage on the CTS....Coolant Temperature Sensor....

So Iam gonna replace that out.....I do need 1 more favor from everybody though....where is the sensor located on my 1990? A Picture would be great.....can email it to: xtremevette@hotmail.com

Thanks everybody....for everything....and thank god wasn't too expensive a lesson.....

Now Iam off to advance to try and get my money back for the ECM.....an electrical part that they claim...they can't take back once you open it....hmmmmmm wish me luck!....


jeff :cool: :cheers: beer to all that helped!!!!

 

Congrats....!! Glad you nailed the problem down.

 

Coolant Temp sensor is located on front of block on pass side just below fuel lines connecting to fuel rail. :flag

 

Yep...I found it...thanks....I just have to change that sensor out today.....then should be good to go.

:party:

 

Congratulations! It feels great when you find the problem doesnt it.

 

yep it certainly does....I did the coolant temperature sensor this morning....the fans now come on at the appropriate time and shut off....and the service engine soon light has gone off....no codes.....

all is well with Karma.... :lol: :thumbs: