Cooling the 396 Stroker
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
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From: Cleveland OH
Cooling the 396 Stroker
All,
Finally wrapping up the 396 project, and we're running into a small issue with cooling the beast at idle. Seems like the water temps will go up to the 230-240 range after about 15 mins of idling. Temps at cruising are in the 180s.
The current cooling/air system is:
Modified TPIS cold air intake with K&N
DeWitts Alum C4 Radiator
Stock Fans
New Stock Water Pump
Is anyone aware of any aftermarket fan setups that could dissipate more heat than the stock units? Any other ideas on how to attack this problem?
I suspect that the problem is not necessarily the water pump as cruising temps are OK, but I'm not sure of the efficency of the water pump at idle when the belts are spinning slower.
Just looking for some additional input to feed back to the tuner.
Thanks all,
Ron
Finally wrapping up the 396 project, and we're running into a small issue with cooling the beast at idle. Seems like the water temps will go up to the 230-240 range after about 15 mins of idling. Temps at cruising are in the 180s.
The current cooling/air system is:
Modified TPIS cold air intake with K&N
DeWitts Alum C4 Radiator
Stock Fans
New Stock Water Pump
Is anyone aware of any aftermarket fan setups that could dissipate more heat than the stock units? Any other ideas on how to attack this problem?
I suspect that the problem is not necessarily the water pump as cruising temps are OK, but I'm not sure of the efficency of the water pump at idle when the belts are spinning slower.
Just looking for some additional input to feed back to the tuner.
Thanks all,
Ron
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (RonRed89)
You could try an electric water pump. They spin at full speed all the time. A friend of mine had an LT1 396 stroker with an electric pump and never had any cooling problems.
The LT1 is set up for an electric water pump easier, but it can still be done.
The LT1 is set up for an electric water pump easier, but it can still be done.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
Likes: 17
From: Indianapolis IN
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (Nathan Plemons)
IN my 165 ECM we control the main fan by the ECM and if you have a HD fan, Hypertech makes a FAN ON @ 176 / FAN OFF @ 167 sesnor if I remember right.
Also, I bought a Flow Kooler water pump that flows more at idle to 3000RPM I believe. My 406 does not get above 185 or so.
Also, I bought a Flow Kooler water pump that flows more at idle to 3000RPM I believe. My 406 does not get above 185 or so.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 1
From: Springfield VA
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (RonRed89)
When are your fans programmed to come on? On my '86 I'm running stock water pump, stock fans and stock radiator. 180deg thermostat and the fans are programmed to come on at 180deg.
Mine comes up to 190deg after a cold start. As soon as the fans come on it quickly cools down to 165. I can make mulitple 1/4 mile runs and sit in the staging lanes with the car idling without temps getting above 170.
Mine comes up to 190deg after a cold start. As soon as the fans come on it quickly cools down to 165. I can make mulitple 1/4 mile runs and sit in the staging lanes with the car idling without temps getting above 170.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62,153
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From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (RonRed89)
What temp are the fans coming on, because you shouldnt still be having cooling problems with that radiator and new WP, despite the fact that the CAI draws air that should run through the radiator.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (Nathan Plemons)
You could try an electric water pump. They spin at full speed all the time. A friend of mine had an LT1 396 stroker with an electric pump and never had any cooling problems..
Ron
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
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From: Kempner Texas
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (vader86)
What temp are the fans coming on, because you shouldnt still be having cooling problems with that radiator and new WP, despite the fact that the CAI draws air that should run through the radiator.
I suspect there's something else causing this; perhaps temp that the fan comes on, air in the cooling system; sticking stat; ignition timing; restriction in airflow through the radiator/condensor; etc.
Jake
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
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From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (ld85)
IN my 165 ECM we control the main fan by the ECM and if you have a HD fan, Hypertech makes a FAN ON @ 176 / FAN OFF @ 167 sesnor if I remember right.
Also, I bought a Flow Kooler water pump that flows more at idle to 3000RPM I believe. My 406 does not get above 185 or so.
Also, I bought a Flow Kooler water pump that flows more at idle to 3000RPM I believe. My 406 does not get above 185 or so.
Where did you get that flow cooler pump? If you have the part# handy, that would be great.
Ron
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
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From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (96LT1)
When are your fans programmed to come on? On my '86 I'm running stock water pump, stock fans and stock radiator. 180deg thermostat and the fans are programmed to come on at 180deg.
Mine comes up to 190deg after a cold start. As soon as the fans come on it quickly cools down to 165. I can make mulitple 1/4 mile runs and sit in the staging lanes with the car idling without temps getting above 170.
Mine comes up to 190deg after a cold start. As soon as the fans come on it quickly cools down to 165. I can make mulitple 1/4 mile runs and sit in the staging lanes with the car idling without temps getting above 170.
Ron
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
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From: Indianapolis IN
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (96LT1)
http://www.flowkooler.com/
I agree that with the Dewitt rad you shuold not have a heating issue,,, and you may have to make sure the rad is burped.
My ECM controls the main fan and my HD fan is controlled by a sensor in the pass-side head. You could have the ECM turn both on if you send the ECM-ON signal to the HD relay as mentioned above.
I agree that with the Dewitt rad you shuold not have a heating issue,,, and you may have to make sure the rad is burped.
My ECM controls the main fan and my HD fan is controlled by a sensor in the pass-side head. You could have the ECM turn both on if you send the ECM-ON signal to the HD relay as mentioned above.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
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From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (JAKE)
I agree. My 415 will idle for extended periods of time with a 195 stat and never gets that hot. I'm using a replacement stock radiator (O'Reilly's Auto Parts), stock main fan and stock water pump too.
I suspect there's something else causing this; perhaps temp that the fan comes on, air in the cooling system; sticking stat; ignition timing; restriction in airflow through the radiator/condensor; etc.
I suspect there's something else causing this; perhaps temp that the fan comes on, air in the cooling system; sticking stat; ignition timing; restriction in airflow through the radiator/condensor; etc.
Thanks for the tips. Do you guys think that it's wise to keep the 160 stat in there. I notice that both you and 96LT1 are running 180 or more. Would that help at all in this particular case?
Ron
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
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From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (96LT1)
My fans were wired to come on together. I'm not sure, but I don't believe the DFI software has the functionality to control both fans.
Ron
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (ld85)
http://www.flowkooler.com/
I agree that with the Dewitt rad you shuold not have a heating issue,,, and you may have to make sure the rad is burped.
I agree that with the Dewitt rad you shuold not have a heating issue,,, and you may have to make sure the rad is burped.
I'm hoping that more of the simple things are covered (burping the rad, mix of coolant/water, stuck stat), but it doesn't hurt to go over all of the bases again.
Thanks to all for your help so far. I will let you know when I find out specifics on the fan on/off temps.
Ron
Team Owner
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From: Athens AL
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Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (RonRed89)
A 160 wouldnt solve this problem, nor would a 180 or 195.
Especially if the cruise temps are OK, so the tstat isnt stuck closed.
Especially if the cruise temps are OK, so the tstat isnt stuck closed.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 1
From: Springfield VA
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (RonRed89)
I just checked C-Com (the FAST tuning software) and there was only one fan input. Does you Accel DFI have 2?
Ron
Ron
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
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From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (96LT1)
I just checked the CalMap Gen 7+ software and it does control both fans. My current program: 1st fan comes on @ 180 goes off @ 175. 2nd fan comes on @ 195 goes off @ 185.
Couldn't get in touch with MORE today to ask about the fan on/off temps, but I've got to believe that hopefully the common stuff that was mentioned in this thread has already been checked by those guys. Will let you guys know what I find.
Ron
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,126
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From: Cleveland OH
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (neverendingproject)
what cam are you running? whats your timing set at at idle? try bumping your timing up to 16*-18* at idle and see if it runs cooler. im betting it will.
I will also find out about the timing at idle and have them try your suggestion. That could possibly be part of the problem.
Thanks,
Ron
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
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From: Kempner Texas
Re: Cooling the 396 Stroker (RonRed89)
[SNIP]Jake,
Thanks for the tips. Do you guys think that it's wise to keep the 160 stat in there. I notice that both you and 96LT1 are running 180 or more. Would that help at all in this particular case?
Ron[/SNIP]
I've tried three different temp stats: 195, 180 and 160. The 160 keeps the engine too cool, especially during the cooler months; even the 180 doesn't work well for me from, say, Oct through Apr.
So I run a 195 during the cooler months and a 180 during the heat of summer.
Jake
Thanks for the tips. Do you guys think that it's wise to keep the 160 stat in there. I notice that both you and 96LT1 are running 180 or more. Would that help at all in this particular case?
Ron[/SNIP]
I've tried three different temp stats: 195, 180 and 160. The 160 keeps the engine too cool, especially during the cooler months; even the 180 doesn't work well for me from, say, Oct through Apr.
So I run a 195 during the cooler months and a 180 during the heat of summer.
Jake