First I want to thank all the people out there with the helpful suggestions. I have completed replacing distributor cap, rotor, module. condenser, coil, spark plugs, spark plug wires, fuel pump and sock strainer, and in-line filter. Motor continues to turn over, I have spark and can see fuel spray out of spark plug hole. Cannot pull up any codes only the normal ones I smell fuel on my dipstick and am thinking leaky injector(s), but not sure what my next step is whether to pull them and/or try to find the culprit(s)

Any ideas out there

 

Have yopu done the free stuff? Like check the voltage at the TPS?

 

It's unlikely that all your injectors failed at once, so I would avoid replacing them just now.

Well you have fuel, spark and are reasonably sure timing is close. At this point I would run a compression check on a cylinder. This will show if valve timing is ok.

If you remove the plenum & runners, unbolt the fuel rail and unbolt the fuel lines from the block it's possible to remove the injectors from the base. Then you can apply fuel pressure to the rail and look for a leaking injector. If not you might turn the engine over with the key to see if all the injectors are firing.

If these tests pass, pull the left valve cover, all the plugs and manually turn the crank till the intake is closing. Then insert a screw driver into the #1 spark plug hole and slowly turn the crank (CW) till you see the screw driver move (you are using it as a piston stop). At this point the piston is very close to TDC on the compression stroke and the timing marks on the damper should be close 6deg BTDC.

Though some effort is involved in the above tests, you should be able to isolate the problem without throwing any more $$ at the problem till after you find the problem cause.

 

did you pull distributor? did you check firing order when you replaced wires? are they in the right place? were all the wires connected to module and/ or distributor cap? is the ground wire connected to the HEI coil properly? try checking these items first,,

Also check to see if the vats system is working, it may prevent start up..


[Modified by korvette4u, 11:59 PM 6/15/2004]

 

There are a number of tests that you can perform before you begin tearing into the engine.

Try these:

Attach a timing light to each of the spark plug wires, crank the engine and see if the timing light flashes. You should see regular flashes when the light is connected to each plug wire.

Use a test light. Disconnect one injector connector, connect the test light and crank the engine. The test light should blink while cranking. Use a test light with a 6.3 volt bulb. If the test light blinks then the ECM is probably okay.

Disconnect the TPS and try starting the engine. If it starts, it's a bad TPS

Disconnect the MAF and try starting it; if it starts it's a bad MAF or MAF wiring. With the MAF disconnected the ECM will use a default value for the MAF sensor

Disconnect the EST by-pass line (single tan wire with black stripe near the power brake booster in a WeatherPak connector) if the engine starts, it's a bad pick-up coil.

Depress the accelerator pedal all the way to the floor, hold it there and crank the engine. If the engine is in Clear Flood mode, the engine may fire.

Without actually having to disconnect the fuel rails from the intake manifold, in order to check for a leaking fuel injector(s) you'll need to pinch off the rubber fuel hoses. First pinch off the RETURN hose, then the SUPPLY hose.

With a fuel pressure gauge installed you can see if the pressure holds when the fuel pump is energized and then de-energized. (turned on and off). After the fuel system has been pressurized by the activation of the fuel pump then turned off, the pressure should hold for a period of time.

If the pressure holds, you're in good shape.

Assuming no fuel leak from the hoses or lines:

If the pressure drops with the RETURN hose pinched off then it's either one or more of the injectors leaking or the fuel pressure regulator. This must be repaired.

If the pressure drops with the SUPPLY line pinched off, then it's probably the intake fuel pump check valve (which is no biggie).

Get back to use after making those tests and give an update.

Jake

 

Maybe this has been suggested already but you might try giving it a shot of starting fuid (ether) and see if it starts. If it does, you have a fuel problem, otherwise, it is more likely, ignition. Of course if you have jumped the timing chain, the fuel and spark aren't going to be enough.

 

Someone mentioned the VATS (vehicle anti theft system) The VATS won't even let you turn over the motor - so it's a pretty safe bet that's NOT it.

 

Sounds very much like ignition to me... One day I was driving at regular city speeds and the car just dropped dead.... I coasted over to the side of the road and tried to restart - the motor would crank but not start. I had the car towed home and I thought it might be the distributor cap or ignition module. I replaced both and the car really wanted to start but instead backfired! Turns out that the gears that turn the distributor broke. I was told I was lucky it didn't take out my oil pump as well. I'm not a mechanic but my problem was the gear on the bottom of my distributor. I'm not in Vegas, but I'm willing to bet it's your ignition system. Hope you figure it out! Good Luck!

 

Hi Jake,
Here is the results of test so far:
Thanks,
Tom

Tried two wire and saw the flashes on both wires - Attach a timing light to each of the spark plug wires, crank the engine and see if the timing light flashes. You should see regular flashes when the light is connected to each plug wire.

I have a question on this one, should the trouble light be lit when the key is turned on? I connected the trouble light to each socket of the injector plug, turned the key on and it immediately lit up, then turned the engine over and it blinked with each pulse I am assuming - Use a test light. Disconnect one injector connector, connect the test light and crank the engine. The test light should blink while cranking. Use a test light with a 6.3 volt bulb. If the test light blinks then the ECM is probably okay.

Car did not start - Disconnect the TPS and try starting the engine. If it starts, it's a bad TPS

Car did not start - Disconnect the MAF and try starting it; if it starts it's a bad MAF or MAF wiring. With the MAF disconnected the ECM will use a default value for the MAF sensor

Car did not start - Disconnect the EST by-pass line (single tan wire with black stripe near the power brake booster in a WeatherPak connector) if the engine starts, it's a bad pick-up coil.

Car did not start - Depress the accelerator pedal all the way to the floor, hold it there and crank the engine. If the engine is in Clear Flood mode, the engine may fire.

Need to try this tonight, however did this to start with nrmal results - Without actually having to disconnect the fuel rails from the intake manifold, in order to check for a leaking fuel injector(s) you'll need to pinch off the rubber fuel hoses. First pinch off the RETURN hose, then the SUPPLY hose.

When the key is turned on pressure will build to 40 psi and then the pump stop and pressure goes to zero. When I crank the engine pressure builds to 43 psi and holds for a while before slowly going to zero - With a fuel pressure gauge installed you can see if the pressure holds when the fuel pump is energized and then de-energized. (turned on and off). After the fuel system has been pressurized by the activation of the fuel pump then turned off, the pressure should hold for a period of time.

If the pressure holds, you're in good shape.

Assuming no fuel leak from the hoses or lines:

If the pressure drops with the RETURN hose pinched off then it's either one or more of the injectors leaking or the fuel pressure regulator. This must be repaired.

If the pressure drops with the SUPPLY line pinched off, then it's probably the intake fuel pump check valve (which is no biggie).

Get back to use after making those tests and give an update.

Jake

 

When using the test light on the Inj conn,.... The light will lite when the "inj" is firing. If it is flashing,.. it is a good bet your ECM is Ok for that part. (Battery->Ing sw->Inj bank fuse->Inj Conn (hot w/ "key-on"))
(Inj conn (other side) -> ECM)

"When the key is turned on pressure will build to 40 psi and then the pump stop and pressure goes to zero."
This is prolly the Fpump check valve (not a problem). Do the hose pinch test, to be sure.

"When I crank the engine pressure builds to 43 psi and holds for a while before slowly going to zero "
Slowly goes to zero,... while cranking,.. or after you stop cranking?

You verified the cap wires,.. firing order,.. right?
You verfied your cam/distrib timing right? (Timing gear worn out) (Timing chain jumped - Quick comp test will show this.)



[Modified by ZylaRace, 1:49 PM 6/17/2004]

 

Let's back up some.

When did this first begin and what were the circumstances?

Is this a fresh rebuild with the engine starting for the first time or did the engine just quit on you?

Have you had the distributor out or moved it?

Jake

 

Hi People,
I was checking out my car last night with a suggestion to check the distributor rotor for correct placement and it checked OK. However while I was checking the timing ( I could not see the marks that well with it turing over) I smelled gas again and it sounded like the rails were passing fuel like I thought it should. I deceide to check the dipstick and could not get a good level and it smelled like gas. I ended up draining my oil pan and got a mixture of oil and gas ... about 3 to 3 and half gallons worth. So I think my next step is to check injectors for leaks. Cruis-in II Veteran's suggestion
Thanks everybody I hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel,
Tom

 

Hi Jake, the engine has 88,000 miles and the distributor was not removed. I had driven it the day before and went the next morning to change the oil. The people went to drive it into the stall and it would not start. After cranking it for awhile it finally started and I drove it home, where it has been since working on it.
Thanks,
Tom


[Modified by tommys88c4, 11:46 PM 6/18/2004]

 

Unless you are running some serious racing oil pan I think you've found the problem. Remember that thee are 9 fuel injetors in the 88. The 9th injector is referred to as the Cold Start Valve (CSV). If you are really really lucky maybe the Cold Start Switch (CSS) which activates the CSV is holding it open. The CSS is a relatively cheap part and is easy to get to for testing.

Unplug the CSV's electrical connector. It only goes to the CSS and has no connection to the ECM, so it won't cause the ECM to set a code. See if that helps. If it does then the CSS is bad. If it is the CSS, you can follow the wires from the CSV to the front of the engine just below the throttle body and remove/replace it. If it doesn't help, the CSV could still be the injector that is stuck open, but you need to pull the CSV to test and that isn't easy with the fuel rail in place. At 88k miles I'm betting that you need to have the injectors rebuilt.

You cannot buy a new CSV, so you either reuse it as is or have it rebuilt. I recommend rich@cruzinperformance to rebuild all 9 injectors or just he CSV and install Ford Mororsport 24# units.

 

[SNIP]Hi People,
I I ended up draining my oil pan and got a mixture of oil and gas ... about 3 to 3 and half gallons worth. So I think my next step is to check injectors for leaks. Cruis-in II Veteran's suggestion
Thanks everybody I hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel,
Tom [/SNIP]

WOW! You're talking about 12 to 14 quarts out of the oil pan. Are you sure it was THAT much? That's close to 3 times the amount that should be in the pan.

If it is anywhere near that amount, it sure sounds like you have injector leaks or problems with the fuel pressure regulator. I can't imagine that just cranking the engine without it firing could cause that much fuel to end up in the pan.

Jake

 

Another vote for:
try starter fluid.

 

Are we REALLY talking 3 to 3-1/2 gallons in the oil pan?

Jake

 

Hi Jake,
Yes, I could not believe I had that much fluid in my stock oil pan. I have been testing quite a bit so it is an accumulation since I first posted with my problem.

I have a reason not to try what another person wants me to try is starter fluid. Right now I have so much fuel in the cylinders I doubt starter fluid will help the problem.

I tested my Cold Start Injector and it was not leaking or pouring a lot of fuel into the engine. My next step is to try and test the injectors by pulling the plenum and fuel rails to see if I can 1) perform this test 2) find the culprit.
Wish me luck as always suggestions are appreciated,
Tom

 

That was 3 gallons of gas in your crankcase oil,.....
You FPR is leaking into your plenum.
The engine is not starting, because it is flooded.

Pull the vacuum hose off the FPR. Turn the key to On. I'll bet you are getting a steady stream of gas out of the FPR vac conn.
Time for a new FPR diaphram.

 

Im not an injector expert but as someone posted earlier it would be odd for all of your injectors to fail at one time. Therefore I vote for the FPR, I would not think that you could get 3 gallons of gas in the oil through a few leaking injectors, especially since you just had the oil changed.