Roll bar kits.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Athens AL
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by vader86
Unfortunately, the RD roll bar is a heavy mild steel, and does not appear to be legal for any form of racing.
We need an astute vendor (perhaps RD?) to realize that nearly every C4 owner who is looking for a roll bar wants one with these qualities:
1) A design that can be welded in, and conform to IHRA and NHRA rules. (Many more C4 owners drag race, than actually compete in real road racing events (driving schools don't count)).
2) It must have either Standard or Optional side bars (again for IHRA/NHRA) , preferably swing out.
3) It should also be available in lighter weight chrome moly steel.
Last edited by Mr6spd; Jul 11, 2004 at 09:42 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 9
From: N.E. WA
Originally Posted by Mr6spd
(And forget about SCCA, more C4 owners drag race than competitively road race)
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 11,506
Likes: 4
From: Vancouver,Wa.
Originally Posted by Jay 383
Rich is going to be consistently in the 11's eh?
Cool!
Cool!
I have a new set of AFR CNC 195's on the way Jay and the intake is getting sent off to http://www.totalengineairflow.com/ Plus they kicked me off the track for running to many 11 second runs. :mad
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 14,676
Likes: 751
From: NEwhere Ohio
Mr. 6spd,
Although I like RD a lot and think Dave is super. I too, wish a chromealoy version was available.
I had a custom fabricator put mine in with full non-removeable sidebars.
Be prepared to pay double for a chromealoy version. Apparently, the welds are harder to make. If you dont know what you are doing welding chromealoy, the metal around your welds (subjected to heat) ends up becoming the weak points.
All that said, my 6 point .120" thick mild steel rollbar with back bracing, main hoop, harness bar and sidebars only added 38 pounds of weight to my car.
Adding no weight is better than some weight, but I still think thats not a lot.
Although I like RD a lot and think Dave is super. I too, wish a chromealoy version was available.
I had a custom fabricator put mine in with full non-removeable sidebars.
Be prepared to pay double for a chromealoy version. Apparently, the welds are harder to make. If you dont know what you are doing welding chromealoy, the metal around your welds (subjected to heat) ends up becoming the weak points.
All that said, my 6 point .120" thick mild steel rollbar with back bracing, main hoop, harness bar and sidebars only added 38 pounds of weight to my car.
Adding no weight is better than some weight, but I still think thats not a lot.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 27,818
Likes: 8
From: CT
Rich
you're how I used to be, die hard racer. That's good that you're going to put a bar in it and that you want to regularly race.
I'm sure with your ways, the bar will be nicely done and properly finished.
Good luck with everything.
you're how I used to be, die hard racer. That's good that you're going to put a bar in it and that you want to regularly race.
I'm sure with your ways, the bar will be nicely done and properly finished.
Good luck with everything.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,801
Likes: 2
From: Amarillo TX
Originally Posted by Mr6spd
I really like their design. I also appreciate the fact that they develop C4 products, when many other forum vendors are now only working on C5 products.
Unfortunately, the RD roll bar is a heavy mild steel product. If they would only make a light weight Chrome Moly one that conformed to NHRA and IHRA rules! But as it is, there is no way that I am putting that much performance robbing weight into my car. I've spent too much time, thought, and money, and planning on removing weight from my car to throw all that effort away by putting that much weight back in.
Looking at the disclaimers on that web page, it does not appear to be legal for any form of racing, so what's the point of buying one of theirs???
So you can be like a ricer and pretend you have a real roll bar??? Or is it meant to be a way to lie to the safety inspectors and hope they don't check into things closely enough to see that it does not conform to the rules???
We need an astute vendor (perhaps even RD) to realize that nearly every C4 owner who is looking for a roll bar wants one with these qualities:
1) A design that can be welded in, and conform to IHRA and NHRA rules. (And forget about SCCA, more C4 owners drag race than competitively road race)
2) It must have either Standard or Optional side bars (again for IHRA/NHRA) , preferably swing out.
3) It must be available in lighter weight chrome moly steel.
Unfortunately, the RD roll bar is a heavy mild steel product. If they would only make a light weight Chrome Moly one that conformed to NHRA and IHRA rules! But as it is, there is no way that I am putting that much performance robbing weight into my car. I've spent too much time, thought, and money, and planning on removing weight from my car to throw all that effort away by putting that much weight back in.
Looking at the disclaimers on that web page, it does not appear to be legal for any form of racing, so what's the point of buying one of theirs???
So you can be like a ricer and pretend you have a real roll bar??? Or is it meant to be a way to lie to the safety inspectors and hope they don't check into things closely enough to see that it does not conform to the rules???We need an astute vendor (perhaps even RD) to realize that nearly every C4 owner who is looking for a roll bar wants one with these qualities:
1) A design that can be welded in, and conform to IHRA and NHRA rules. (And forget about SCCA, more C4 owners drag race than competitively road race)
2) It must have either Standard or Optional side bars (again for IHRA/NHRA) , preferably swing out.
3) It must be available in lighter weight chrome moly steel.
Mr6spd,
What can I say? If it wasn't for legal and liability issues involved in today’s business, a lot of companies would be doing things differently. Since my company sells to customers all over the world, we try to build our products using the safest guidelines available. Since practically all of the other sanctioning bodies in the US have made chromemoly illegal for roll-bars and cages due to the issues of tubing fractures, we have decide to concur. Our S/T Frame Supports are heavy due to the weight of 1.75� dom tubing, but that is what it takes to support a 3000# plus car in case it is ever needed.
I respect your desire to have a lighter chromemoly 5 point, but that does not qualify our units as ricer hardware. In our business there are far more road racers and auto crossers than drag racers. Our products represent our customer’s needs and safety, even to the point that I will lose a sell once in awhile due to the weight factor.
I hope this clearly expresses why I do not use chromemoly tubing and that I am not trying to shun the drag racing sport. In my view, every customer that I have ever sold to is a friend and I would hate to see a friend hurt due to a flaw of something that has my name on it.
Dave Cooper - President
R-D Racing Enterprises, Inc.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 9
Hello Dave,
Thanks for your insight on this! I should have figured on the legal issues involved in saying that it is approved for anything!!! Thanks also for the insight into the Chrome moly vs. Mild steel issue.
I have a few questions to determine If I could adapt one of your bars for IHRA/NHRA use:
-Can your Roll bars be welded in, instead of bolted in?
-Does the back brace bar angle conform to NHRA/IHRA rules?
-Do you have any ready-made side bar kits available?
What does the the R&D roll bar assembly actually weigh?
Thanks for your insight on this! I should have figured on the legal issues involved in saying that it is approved for anything!!! Thanks also for the insight into the Chrome moly vs. Mild steel issue.
I have a few questions to determine If I could adapt one of your bars for IHRA/NHRA use:
-Can your Roll bars be welded in, instead of bolted in?
-Does the back brace bar angle conform to NHRA/IHRA rules?
-Do you have any ready-made side bar kits available?
What does the the R&D roll bar assembly actually weigh?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,801
Likes: 2
From: Amarillo TX
The S/T Frame Support is designed to be welded in and reccomended. We advertise it and offer it as a bolt in unit because that is what the majority of the owners are looking for.
I am not sure what the NHRA/IHRA rule book requires for a rear brace angle. The SCCA GCR manual states a minimum of 30 degrees. Since a majority of our customers are governed by that sanctioning body, we stay pretty close to their guidelines.
If you have a copy of the NHRA/IHRA rules and could email me the section, I’d be happy to review it.
Dave
I am not sure what the NHRA/IHRA rule book requires for a rear brace angle. The SCCA GCR manual states a minimum of 30 degrees. Since a majority of our customers are governed by that sanctioning body, we stay pretty close to their guidelines.
If you have a copy of the NHRA/IHRA rules and could email me the section, I’d be happy to review it.
Dave
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 32,782
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From: Former NCM Drag Racing coordinator, National director Corvette Challenge Spring Hill, Tennessee: Whiting, New Jersey
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
Have a custom bar built for your car.
You'll be much happer.
You'll be much happer.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,202
Likes: 9
From: St. louis, MO
I have the R-D S/T Frame Support and love it! Quality is great and it helps stiffen up the car. It may be heavier then chrome-moly, but I trust the S/T more then I would a chrome moly. I don't think it makes anyone a "ricer", especially since it serves a function. BTW, O autox and roadrace.....
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,101
Likes: 4
From: No more yankee my wankee, the Donger is tired!
Originally Posted by Mr6spd
1) A design that can be welded in, and conform to IHRA and NHRA rules. (Many more C4 owners drag race, than actually compete in real road racing events (driving schools don't count)).
2) It must have either Standard or Optional side bars (again for IHRA/NHRA) , preferably swing out.
3) It should also be available in lighter weight chrome moly steel.
Dave already answered on that one.
With that said, I've already talked to Rich tonight and he has seen these pics.
http://www.pnwzr1.net/Jeff/Rollbar/Rollbar1.JPG
http://www.pnwzr1.net/Jeff/Rollbar/Rollbar2.JPG
I went with DRM for my bar. Somebody who I can trust regarding safety during high speed events.
Last edited by Jeffvette; Jul 12, 2004 at 01:49 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 4
From: I'm the walkin dude I can see all of the world...
St. Jude Donor '03
Originally Posted by Shaun R
Just currious but how much weight does your R/D rollbar weigh and what price do they go for?
I have one. It is a good product. Trying to guess the wieght off hand I would say it is about 30-40 Lbs.... It really helped with the body/Frame flex problems of the C4... Definitly the best feature of this product.
Now what you need to consider is your hieght and whether or not you want passengers to be comfterble in your car. The S+T frame dramaticly changes the passinger side leg room and it also changes the drivers side leg/head room. Now I'm 6'4 so I need all that space. I'm still trying to get used to all of the room I have lost. Now someone shorter than me say 6'0 wouldn't have any trouble at all.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 686
Likes: 2
From: Austin TX
That could be a problem for me. I am 6'2" and when I race w/ my helmet on I sometimes have problems w/ hitting my head on the side of the roof. Why is it that it changes the leg room so much? It's hard to tell from the pics.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,295
Likes: 4
From: I'm the walkin dude I can see all of the world...
St. Jude Donor '03
Originally Posted by Shaun R
That could be a problem for me. I am 6'2" and when I race w/ my helmet on I sometimes have problems w/ hitting my head on the side of the roof. Why is it that it changes the leg room so much? It's hard to tell from the pics.
Well the passenger side is much much worse than the drivers side. The reason is you can get the seats as far back anymore. The seat backs and the bars are in the way of each other(For tall people). I need to post some pics also....
Gary I borrowed a pic I hope you don't mind
Ok see in this pic the lowest cross bar and the seats hit each other. This causes you to not be able to put the seat as far back as normal.
The passenger side is worse due to the diagonal across bar wich hits the tops of the seat. This makes it have to go even further up or you will feel like your in an ejection seat.
Now, with this being said... If you want a roll bar for protection and strength, etc you HAVE to have these bars. There is no getting around it. So I hope nobody is getting the impression I think this product can be designed any better. Dave's bar is a great piece and I am happy with it. My Wife is perfectly happy with the passenger side leg room (shes 5'4) but I can't fit in over there. She can't even tell a difference.
Its just something to think about if you are tall.
Last edited by VR'92; Jul 12, 2004 at 11:28 AM.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 641
Likes: 16
From: O'Fallon MO
Dave welded my S/T Frame to the frame and from the DRM pics looks exactly to the same locations. The "H" bar on the rear of the DRM setup probably isn't needed. The S/T really boxed in my rear suspension and made the Vette noticeably stiffer. 