What's wrong with my combo? (long)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 1
From: Springfield MO
I would say that there is still some left in the tuning, but I personally think you have a "top end" power setup whereas it seems as though you were looking for more low end and mid range.....which or course it the grunt that you feel. What gearing is in the car? What tranny....forgive me it you stated it in your original post.
FYI- you can do alot with 350 rwhp.....I'm running 12.1's at 112 with less
FYI- you can do alot with 350 rwhp.....I'm running 12.1's at 112 with less
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 0
From: What did the 5 fingers say to the face? SLAP!!
I believe a big part of your lack of numbers is the cam. You said they started with a 220/229 and then ground from there. That means it's even smaller now. If I had a miniram 383 I would use something in the 240 duration range. Just me though.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 1
From: Springfield MO
I don't understand why somebody would purchase a cam not knowing what the actual numbers are......that is just a personal opinion though. Without knowing exact cam specs it is going to be very hard to determine if there is acutally a performance loss
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,152
Likes: 243
From: Northern VA
Felngr8, I made an appt with Robert. Best I can get was Aug 19! I work with his wife so I have seen his stuff and talked to him at parties etc...
I was not aware that I could not get the exact specs of the cam until I purchased the whole thing. Shame on me. I figured they were a reputable shop (MORE Performance) and still think they are. However, they claimed 400rwhp with the stock bottom end. I have yet to physically see someone's setup with those numbers. Mike, the cam card I recieved calls out 220-229 with .510-.510 lift with 1.5s. With my 1.6s I figure .547 both sides. The Darts have been ported and at .550 they are flowing 280 cfm. From what I understand that is about the limit of a stock miniram as well. If I knew I could get a bunch more power with a bigger cam, I will do it over the winter. John can make it driveable with the DFI I am sure. I take it that this cam is similar to the hot cam but with more lift. I see stock bottom end LT-1s making as much power or more than me and I have a few more cubic inches. Keep it coming guys and all you road racers and drag guys remember, its all good
I was not aware that I could not get the exact specs of the cam until I purchased the whole thing. Shame on me. I figured they were a reputable shop (MORE Performance) and still think they are. However, they claimed 400rwhp with the stock bottom end. I have yet to physically see someone's setup with those numbers. Mike, the cam card I recieved calls out 220-229 with .510-.510 lift with 1.5s. With my 1.6s I figure .547 both sides. The Darts have been ported and at .550 they are flowing 280 cfm. From what I understand that is about the limit of a stock miniram as well. If I knew I could get a bunch more power with a bigger cam, I will do it over the winter. John can make it driveable with the DFI I am sure. I take it that this cam is similar to the hot cam but with more lift. I see stock bottom end LT-1s making as much power or more than me and I have a few more cubic inches. Keep it coming guys and all you road racers and drag guys remember, its all good
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 0
From: What did the 5 fingers say to the face? SLAP!!
Try punching in different cam specs into Desktop Dyno. If you don't have it, you can download it from Kazaa. I have no idea what airflow numbers you would use for the intake. Maybe someone else here does.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,490
Likes: 2
From: Oviedo FL
Jerky,
John just finished tuning my friends car (the guy h rocks was telling you about) and he got 411/380 with his 383/MR/AFR 195's. Mind you this is with a much bigger cam (ZZ-X 239/239), and is probably nowhere near as streetable as your cam (dare I say he is a road racer, and has won a race or two as well). You can definitely make more power with the bigger cam (or a cam that will provide more lift), but there will always be a tradeoff.
I know MORE advertises those numbers, but that can't surely be with the 2 cams that 96LT1 mentioned. You will have to go much bigger to reach that goal in my opinion. Or you can do as those 2 who are joined at the hip suggested, and put your stock injectors back on the car. I'm sure that'll do it.
Good luck... I'm sure you will get it all sorted out.
Mike
John just finished tuning my friends car (the guy h rocks was telling you about) and he got 411/380 with his 383/MR/AFR 195's. Mind you this is with a much bigger cam (ZZ-X 239/239), and is probably nowhere near as streetable as your cam (dare I say he is a road racer, and has won a race or two as well). You can definitely make more power with the bigger cam (or a cam that will provide more lift), but there will always be a tradeoff.
I know MORE advertises those numbers, but that can't surely be with the 2 cams that 96LT1 mentioned. You will have to go much bigger to reach that goal in my opinion. Or you can do as those 2 who are joined at the hip suggested, and put your stock injectors back on the car. I'm sure that'll do it.
Good luck... I'm sure you will get it all sorted out.
Mike
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Originally Posted by 96LT1
luvmy92, forget it. Those are the same guys that were going to do autocrosses and road courses with automatics and 3000/4000 rpm (whatever they are running now) TCs. {at least theoretically, the last time someone tried to example the dynamics of driving on a road course} For them life doesn't exist outside of their 1320' and they have no concept of turning 6000rpms for 3000' {front straight at Summit}
We can easily cover most all other street cars by 1/4 of the 1320'. What? Do you honestly think your going to gain back that ground, and we aren't going to open that gap up even more as we continue down the track? PLease tell me how you think you'll gain back the ground and somehow come out ahead?
As we have said time and time again in other posts. That 1320' you guys throw around so casually is the raw measurement of a cars acceleration....a straight line 3000' long is what? And where did 30 minutes come from? It takes you that long to go that far?
As I said earlier, before you jump on someone else's comments trying to help someone else out with known factual backing of testing/results...go do some of your own...it will help your argument.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,270
Likes: 26
From: Winchester VA
Cruise-In V Veteran
Hey what's goin on Jerky? Stirring up trouble I see. I was up your way Sunday looking at lots at Stoneleigh Golf Club, nice, but a little steep$$$. We are looking in Winchester now. I'll let you know next time I'm out at M-D.
Now to the engine stuff, I am a bit disappointed in my setup currently also. If I'm ever home at night, I'll be talkin with Corky, he's got a pretty good track record of putting together powerful engines. My driving style tends resemble the need for quick bursts of acceleration as opposed long cruises at 6000RPM. I have been toying a fairly major rebuild as Ski suggested. With all the complications I had at the machine shop I wonder what my comp ratio really is, I have also noticed a wide range in my compression readings (possibly due to heavy overfueling in early engine life).
I hope you get it sorted out, it sucks to put in the time and effort, not to mention $$$ only to be disappointed.
Now to the engine stuff, I am a bit disappointed in my setup currently also. If I'm ever home at night, I'll be talkin with Corky, he's got a pretty good track record of putting together powerful engines. My driving style tends resemble the need for quick bursts of acceleration as opposed long cruises at 6000RPM. I have been toying a fairly major rebuild as Ski suggested. With all the complications I had at the machine shop I wonder what my comp ratio really is, I have also noticed a wide range in my compression readings (possibly due to heavy overfueling in early engine life).
I hope you get it sorted out, it sucks to put in the time and effort, not to mention $$$ only to be disappointed.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: pa
Originally Posted by jerkyboy
Ok, to recap: I originally purchased a MORE Performance Top end kit for my L98. This included Miniram, 52mm tb, custom ground cam; Dart pro 1's 200cc and ported, headers, 1.6 RRs etc.. I immediately spun a bearing so out comes the engine. Another shop did the bottom end (supposed to be reputable). Block machined, honed, decked etc.. Forged crank, forged rods, forged pistons. C.R. worked out to 10.14:1. Original top end upgrade goes on top new 383 bottom end. I get convinced that I need DFI. Talked to others that said it was the real deal. Same shop installed it. Tuner there said I needed 58mm TB and 48lb injectors. Car runs ok but is pig rich. I said the He** with them and took it to a highly recommended tuner. He took a look at the DFI install and said it was sloppy. Put the car on the dyno just to see what it would do. First run was 320 rwhp or so. Fuel pressure was way high. Turned it down and picked up 55 rwhp!!! So I am at 375rwhp and 350rwtq. He says the 48lb injectors are too big. Puts my 30s back in. Re-installs a few sensors and spends a day tuning it. Best he can get is 350 rwhp, 350 rwtq. The only thing he says he notices is that the people and the previous shop ran 2.5" exhaust tubes from my header collectors, pinched it around the tranny and connected to 3" all the way back. (it's true duals). He said putting 3" madrel bent pieces would give me some more power. Bottom line, this is not the power I was anticipating. I have been watching results from others 383s, 406's etc.. and wondering which of my components is screwing me up. I am just going to drive it the rest of this year and maybe make changes over the winter. Maybe I'll just start saving for a C6. I don't know. Your opinions are appreciated. Please don't flame me, I am too pissed already. My exact mods are in my sig. Thanks.
Maybe don't worry so much about being a dyno King... I hold very little trust in a chassis dyno. I had my car on a dyno once and it yielded 350/349 Yet the same day I ran 11.18 @ 123 Then the next 11.0 @ 125 - 3550 lb car - You do the math!
Then same day my broth in law put his LS1 on same dyno and made same HP and 5 more ft lbs in a car that traped 11 MPH less..
It sounds like you have a decent combo, Keep the #30's they are costing you nothing you can't tune out. The 42's would have worked ok to but idle quality and drivability would suffer in my opinion.
I also don't think the darts are too small, My old Camaro when natural traped 115mph with darts on a 350 - But light pocket porting did pick them up a good bit.
Take the car to a track, work with it!
I would rather make 200 @ the wheels and trap 120s than 430 and trap
119 . IMHO.
Remember, all cars are fast on the dyno and the trailer!
Stop letting people burn wonder proms for you and make your own, its cheap to do.
Last edited by 87_ta; Jul 13, 2004 at 09:37 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,772
Likes: 17
From: Indianapolis IN
Been there, my first engine was OK but not what I expected.
I believe your low end head flow could be weak (?) and your cam is not enough.
I had the Dart 215CC heads with an HR, 225/233 at .527-.541 lift with and 10.3 or so Static CR
Changed to 10.97:1 CR,, changed to AFR 210 RR's, reground my cam to 233/233 w/.576/.576 lift and car picked up 35RWHP and 30RWTQ, and the car has yet to be tuned properly, cause the 4+3 tranny got smoked by the new power and probably the age of the car...I am sure I have close to 400RWHP and 400+ RWTQ when it is done next spring,,, time and MONEY will tell!
I have a mandrel bent Hooker Y-pipe feeding into a 3" straight tube into a Bullet Muffler then into 2.5" mandrel bent tube into Magnaflows.
1. Fix the exhaust,
2. Port the low flow on your heads IF they are weak.
3. Get a Super ram, for the low end "feel/TQ"
On another note, some of these guys like Ski and Cork are running higher compression too, like high 11's and close to 12.1 Static CR.
I believe your low end head flow could be weak (?) and your cam is not enough.
I had the Dart 215CC heads with an HR, 225/233 at .527-.541 lift with and 10.3 or so Static CR
Changed to 10.97:1 CR,, changed to AFR 210 RR's, reground my cam to 233/233 w/.576/.576 lift and car picked up 35RWHP and 30RWTQ, and the car has yet to be tuned properly, cause the 4+3 tranny got smoked by the new power and probably the age of the car...I am sure I have close to 400RWHP and 400+ RWTQ when it is done next spring,,, time and MONEY will tell!
I have a mandrel bent Hooker Y-pipe feeding into a 3" straight tube into a Bullet Muffler then into 2.5" mandrel bent tube into Magnaflows.
1. Fix the exhaust,
2. Port the low flow on your heads IF they are weak.
3. Get a Super ram, for the low end "feel/TQ"
On another note, some of these guys like Ski and Cork are running higher compression too, like high 11's and close to 12.1 Static CR.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,581
Likes: 1
From: Springfield VA
Originally Posted by ski_dwn_it
As we have said time and time again in other posts. That 1320' you guys throw around so casually is the raw measurement of a cars acceleration....a straight line 3000' long is what? And where did 30 minutes come from? It takes you that long to go that far?
Second, what part of 3000' at 6000rpm did you NOT understand. There is no acceleration there. You are maintaining a constant rate. The point I was trying to make was the stain that is put on a motor to be held wide open for the length of time it takes to travel that distance. {actually about 2800' considering that you have to brake to make the 180 turn} If the motor is not perfectly tuned it is going to go.
Third, this isn't a one time pass and then go cool down. This is for 30, 45 even 60 minutes at a time.
As I said earlier, before you jump on someone else's comments trying to help someone else out with known factual backing of testing/results...go do some of your own...it will help your argument.
As for testing and results, we do it every time we go to a track. We put more time on a motor in one 30 minute session then you do all weekend at the drags, and we do that anywhere from 6 to 10 times a weekend. 5 hours is what, 700 runs for you (counting burnouts, staging, etc.)
The results of your tests are extremely easy to record (I went 5.332@190mph in 90deg temps with a baro of 30.30)
How much can the baro change in 30 minutes? What effect does driving on a 140 deg track temp have on your engine temp? How long are 24# injectors going to perform at 100% when your oil temp is 270deg, water temp is 230 and inside engine compartment temps are in excess of 180degs.
If you don't have everything right on your motor, you lose a couple of seconds. If we don't have everything right, we lose a motor.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Brad.
I think your observation about the larger heads, and injectors was very accurate to be honest with you.
Bigger heads are going to kill some bottom end, and they are ported ontop of that, so they are probably well over 200cc runners in the final state. Not sure what gears Jerky is running, but without some pretty steep ones to get this baby up and running, I do think that is part of his problem.
He would have much more torque with a set of 190AFRs untouched on there than big old runner that only flow a few more CFM at the very topend.
I am not at all saying the car will not run, it will just not reach its full potential, which I think is what is bothering him.
ID85, yes your right with our compression, but I should also point out that its a very well known fact that each compression point you raise your motor, only is worth 4% power increase. At our 600hp rating now, that is only 24hp. Hardly anything to get excited about. That 24hp at our ETs might make us .05-.085 quicker, so its really nothing to get excited about.
Now if I had it to do all over again, I would seriously entertain 14:1 or 15:1, since I can go 100% WOT right now with pump gas and no detonation. After I get the car dialed in and quite jumping around with the timing, I am going to quite using 1/2 race gas. $4.75 or $5.75/gallon, depending where I get it, gets pretty pricey when your running nearly every weekend.
If we would have 14 or 15:1 they would be straight race gas, but the benefits of an extra 100 hp due to compression would definately make it worth while for the little more cost to run the gas and would warrant conversation.
I think your observation about the larger heads, and injectors was very accurate to be honest with you.
Bigger heads are going to kill some bottom end, and they are ported ontop of that, so they are probably well over 200cc runners in the final state. Not sure what gears Jerky is running, but without some pretty steep ones to get this baby up and running, I do think that is part of his problem.
He would have much more torque with a set of 190AFRs untouched on there than big old runner that only flow a few more CFM at the very topend.
I am not at all saying the car will not run, it will just not reach its full potential, which I think is what is bothering him.
ID85, yes your right with our compression, but I should also point out that its a very well known fact that each compression point you raise your motor, only is worth 4% power increase. At our 600hp rating now, that is only 24hp. Hardly anything to get excited about. That 24hp at our ETs might make us .05-.085 quicker, so its really nothing to get excited about.
Now if I had it to do all over again, I would seriously entertain 14:1 or 15:1, since I can go 100% WOT right now with pump gas and no detonation. After I get the car dialed in and quite jumping around with the timing, I am going to quite using 1/2 race gas. $4.75 or $5.75/gallon, depending where I get it, gets pretty pricey when your running nearly every weekend.
If we would have 14 or 15:1 they would be straight race gas, but the benefits of an extra 100 hp due to compression would definately make it worth while for the little more cost to run the gas and would warrant conversation.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
"it isn't your facts anyone is disputing. It is the context. It is quite apparent that you have never done any type of road course. Since you don't have any experience there (no biggy) you don't realize that you can't use the same measuring device."
Well stated. Not jumping into a whizzing match here at all, as I don't have the data to prove out my comments, which are just that--comments. Having said that, I must add that after being one of the four or so C4'ers that have had a nightmarish engine build from h ell and back, I did what I should have done in the first place...bite the bullet and have known entity with a track record build the motor, and tune it on the engine dyno. (SD, FYI) In the process of investigating the shops, I spoke to (interviewed, if you will) quite a few people. One of the "BTW" questions I asked was the size of the injectors required on a stroker SR, big cam motor used for road course applications. The instant answer was 30#. The shop I ended up with is a BIG proponent of smaller injectors at higher pressure. Part of the logic was the fact that the engine would be run a significant amount of time at higher RPM. Given all the well documented crap a number of us have been through, the LAST thing I was going to do was to insist on smaller fuel injectors. (BTW the engine dyno numbers are stout. Shipping today, I hope to have it back in by the end of next week, and on a chassis dyno to back up the numbers.)
Well stated. Not jumping into a whizzing match here at all, as I don't have the data to prove out my comments, which are just that--comments. Having said that, I must add that after being one of the four or so C4'ers that have had a nightmarish engine build from h ell and back, I did what I should have done in the first place...bite the bullet and have known entity with a track record build the motor, and tune it on the engine dyno. (SD, FYI) In the process of investigating the shops, I spoke to (interviewed, if you will) quite a few people. One of the "BTW" questions I asked was the size of the injectors required on a stroker SR, big cam motor used for road course applications. The instant answer was 30#. The shop I ended up with is a BIG proponent of smaller injectors at higher pressure. Part of the logic was the fact that the engine would be run a significant amount of time at higher RPM. Given all the well documented crap a number of us have been through, the LAST thing I was going to do was to insist on smaller fuel injectors. (BTW the engine dyno numbers are stout. Shipping today, I hope to have it back in by the end of next week, and on a chassis dyno to back up the numbers.)
Last edited by h rocks; Jul 13, 2004 at 10:04 AM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,204
Likes: 6
From: St Marys PA
Originally Posted by 96LT1
First, I am not casually ignoring your results in 1320' or any other area.
Second, what part of 3000' at 6000rpm did you NOT understand. There is no acceleration there. You are maintaining a constant rate. The point I was trying to make was the stain that is put on a motor to be held wide open for the length of time it takes to travel that distance. {actually about 2800' considering that you have to brake to make the 180 turn} If the motor is not perfectly tuned it is going to go.
Third, this isn't a one time pass and then go cool down. This is for 30, 45 even 60 minutes at a time.
As you have been told before, it isn't your facts anyone is disputing. It is the context. It is quite apparent that you have never done any type of road course. Since you don't have any experience there (no biggy) you don't realize that you can't use the same measuring device.
As for testing and results, we do it every time we go to a track. We put more time on a motor in one 30 minute session then you do all weekend at the drags, and we do that anywhere from 6 to 10 times a weekend. 5 hours is what, 700 runs for you (counting burnouts, staging, etc.)
The results of your tests are extremely easy to record (I went 5.332@190mph in 90deg temps with a baro of 30.30)
How much can the baro change in 30 minutes? What effect does driving on a 140 deg track temp have on your engine temp? How long are 24# injectors going to perform at 100% when your oil temp is 270deg, water temp is 230 and inside engine compartment temps are in excess of 180degs.
If you don't have everything right on your motor, you lose a couple of seconds. If we don't have everything right, we lose a motor.
Second, what part of 3000' at 6000rpm did you NOT understand. There is no acceleration there. You are maintaining a constant rate. The point I was trying to make was the stain that is put on a motor to be held wide open for the length of time it takes to travel that distance. {actually about 2800' considering that you have to brake to make the 180 turn} If the motor is not perfectly tuned it is going to go.
Third, this isn't a one time pass and then go cool down. This is for 30, 45 even 60 minutes at a time.
As you have been told before, it isn't your facts anyone is disputing. It is the context. It is quite apparent that you have never done any type of road course. Since you don't have any experience there (no biggy) you don't realize that you can't use the same measuring device.
As for testing and results, we do it every time we go to a track. We put more time on a motor in one 30 minute session then you do all weekend at the drags, and we do that anywhere from 6 to 10 times a weekend. 5 hours is what, 700 runs for you (counting burnouts, staging, etc.)
The results of your tests are extremely easy to record (I went 5.332@190mph in 90deg temps with a baro of 30.30)
How much can the baro change in 30 minutes? What effect does driving on a 140 deg track temp have on your engine temp? How long are 24# injectors going to perform at 100% when your oil temp is 270deg, water temp is 230 and inside engine compartment temps are in excess of 180degs.
If you don't have everything right on your motor, you lose a couple of seconds. If we don't have everything right, we lose a motor.
that is all fair and good. But I think my short burst of power down the strip and use of my car on the street often, more closely relate to jerky's typical driving habits ( such as him coming off stoplight wanting to feel his motor's power through say 1-2-3 up to say 80-90MPh then leaving off and coming back down a reasonable speed. Than say driving for 30 minutes at WOT, at 190MPH. I mean who the heck ever does that, except for a handfull of guys that might go to these Nevada open road races. I think I can be fairly confident in taking the position that Jerky has yet to run his car like that, and 99% of the people here. So your justification for what your point is based on, while it might be 100% accurate, is very narrowly focused.
If what your doing is working for you then that is great. If you go back and read what jerky's experience along with his tuners recommondation with moving from the 42#er to 30#er were, and the improvement, then I think its fair to say that my advice to nearly all users here with staying with smaller injectors (excluding guys like you that have places to run a zillion MPH, I mean that straight stretch you run on for 30 minutes straight would have to be 80miles long @ 190 mPH) And based on the cars that we have put together, coupled with the other from the forum which run damn good, I feel that my advice is 100% accurate. But its a free country and people can do as they please :flag
Last edited by ski_dwn_it; Jul 13, 2004 at 10:24 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
[QUOTE=ski_dwn_it]96lT1,
"Than say driving for 30 minutes at WOT, at 190MPH. I mean who the heck ever does that, except for a handfull of guys that might go to these Nevada open road races.....while it might be 100% accurate, is very narrowly focused.......If you go back and read what jerky's experience along with his tuners recommondation with moving from the 42#er to 30#er were, and the improvement,.........(excluding guys like you that have places to run a zillion MPH,....) And based on the cars that we have put together, coupled with the other from the forum which run damn good, I feel that my advice is 100% accurate."
Ok, I found it this time!...
Hey ski, no need to berate us guys that like to go a zillion MPH! 
Don't we all!?!? I think that we can all agree that in engines, love and war, there is no such thing that one size fits all. Nothing is 100%.
I quoted only some of your comments, as I believe that for whatever reason, jerky's guy couldn't tune the "smaller" 30#'ers, and got more HP and TQ with the 40,000#'ers! go figure THAT one? Sounds like there's going to be more to that story...
Anyhow, I think that your comments are generally well thought out, and are of value to the CF community. IMHO, it does nothing for your veracity to berate others. A terse retort is fine, but it's a slippery slope you're on now. Keep posting your ideas and findings. Some of it does carry over to those of us that like to turn left, right and row up and down through the gears.
"Than say driving for 30 minutes at WOT, at 190MPH. I mean who the heck ever does that, except for a handfull of guys that might go to these Nevada open road races.....while it might be 100% accurate, is very narrowly focused.......If you go back and read what jerky's experience along with his tuners recommondation with moving from the 42#er to 30#er were, and the improvement,.........(excluding guys like you that have places to run a zillion MPH,....) And based on the cars that we have put together, coupled with the other from the forum which run damn good, I feel that my advice is 100% accurate."
Ok, I found it this time!...
Hey ski, no need to berate us guys that like to go a zillion MPH! Don't we all!?!? I think that we can all agree that in engines, love and war, there is no such thing that one size fits all. Nothing is 100%. I quoted only some of your comments, as I believe that for whatever reason, jerky's guy couldn't tune the "smaller" 30#'ers, and got more HP and TQ with the 40,000#'ers! go figure THAT one? Sounds like there's going to be more to that story...
Anyhow, I think that your comments are generally well thought out, and are of value to the CF community. IMHO, it does nothing for your veracity to berate others. A terse retort is fine, but it's a slippery slope you're on now. Keep posting your ideas and findings. Some of it does carry over to those of us that like to turn left, right and row up and down through the gears.
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Well I haven't read this entire thread because it looks like a ****fight is starting and I'll try to stay out of it, just add my $.02
Jesse is right, go with the smaller injectors, the 42's were way too big. 30's might still be a little bit too big but if the DFI is as nice as it is supposed to be you should easily be able to use them.
Cam Specs - Figure out what they are. Without knowing that it's really impossible to know what the nature of your engine should be. If it is a "secret" than they are trying to hide something. Let them know that they have forever lost a customer, their cam is going in the garbage and you'll report your dealings with Corvette Forum and they'll give up a ton of potential customers. If they still won't tell you anything, then F' em.
The runners on your heads are very large, not meant for low end torque. Combine that with the mini-ram and a cam that is probably a lot bigger than it should be and you'll have almost no low end, hence the poor low end torque numbers that your car is producing. However, low end torque usually comes at the cost of high end horsepower and vice versa, so you should be making more HP than you are. You said that it made 375 with 42 pound injectors but not with the 30's? Sounds like the person who is doing your tuning is in way over his head.
Tuning for peak power is a piece of cake, it's driveability tuning that's hard.
Jesse is right, go with the smaller injectors, the 42's were way too big. 30's might still be a little bit too big but if the DFI is as nice as it is supposed to be you should easily be able to use them.
Cam Specs - Figure out what they are. Without knowing that it's really impossible to know what the nature of your engine should be. If it is a "secret" than they are trying to hide something. Let them know that they have forever lost a customer, their cam is going in the garbage and you'll report your dealings with Corvette Forum and they'll give up a ton of potential customers. If they still won't tell you anything, then F' em.
The runners on your heads are very large, not meant for low end torque. Combine that with the mini-ram and a cam that is probably a lot bigger than it should be and you'll have almost no low end, hence the poor low end torque numbers that your car is producing. However, low end torque usually comes at the cost of high end horsepower and vice versa, so you should be making more HP than you are. You said that it made 375 with 42 pound injectors but not with the 30's? Sounds like the person who is doing your tuning is in way over his head.
Tuning for peak power is a piece of cake, it's driveability tuning that's hard.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,490
Likes: 2
From: Oviedo FL
Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons
Cam Specs - Figure out what they are. Without knowing that it's really impossible to know what the nature of your engine should be. If it is a "secret" than they are trying to hide something. Let them know that they have forever lost a customer, their cam is going in the garbage and you'll report your dealings with Corvette Forum and they'll give up a ton of potential customers. If they still won't tell you anything, then F' em.
Originally Posted by Nathan Plemons
You said that it made 375 with 42 pound injectors but not with the 30's? Sounds like the person who is doing your tuning is in way over his head.
He had originally gotten Jerky 55 HP just by turning the fp down on the 48's. But when they went to the 30's he lost 25 hp. Maybe if he went to the 24's he can pick up the lost 25 hp plus another 25 hp. Who knows... stranger things have happened.
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but I read more bad about MORE performance than I do good.
As for his tuner, if he's so good then where is the horsepower? You should be able to make the same peak horsepower numbers with any injectors you throw in there, unless the injectors are too small. Driveability is where all the tuning problems really lie.
I never said I could tune the car any better, I just said that his guy may not know what he is doing, I know I've certainly never seen a DFI system.
As for his tuner, if he's so good then where is the horsepower? You should be able to make the same peak horsepower numbers with any injectors you throw in there, unless the injectors are too small. Driveability is where all the tuning problems really lie.
I never said I could tune the car any better, I just said that his guy may not know what he is doing, I know I've certainly never seen a DFI system.