Ok, to recap: I originally purchased a MORE Performance Top end kit for my L98. This included Miniram, 52mm tb, custom ground cam; Dart pro 1's 200cc and ported, headers, 1.6 RRs etc.. I immediately spun a bearing so out comes the engine. Another shop did the bottom end (supposed to be reputable). Block machined, honed, decked etc.. Forged crank, forged rods, forged pistons. C.R. worked out to 10.14:1. Original top end upgrade goes on top new 383 bottom end. I get convinced that I need DFI. Talked to others that said it was the real deal. Same shop installed it. Tuner there said I needed 58mm TB and 48lb injectors. Car runs ok but is pig rich. I said the He** with them and took it to a highly recommended tuner. He took a look at the DFI install and said it was sloppy. Put the car on the dyno just to see what it would do. First run was 320 rwhp or so. Fuel pressure was way high. Turned it down and picked up 55 rwhp!!! So I am at 375rwhp and 350rwtq. He says the 48lb injectors are too big. Puts my 30s back in. Re-installs a few sensors and spends a day tuning it. Best he can get is 350 rwhp, 350 rwtq. The only thing he says he notices is that the people and the previous shop ran 2.5" exhaust tubes from my header collectors, pinched it around the tranny and connected to 3" all the way back. (it's true duals). He said putting 3" madrel bent pieces would give me some more power. Bottom line, this is not the power I was anticipating. I have been watching results from others 383s, 406's etc.. and wondering which of my components is screwing me up. I am just going to drive it the rest of this year and maybe make changes over the winter. Maybe I'll just start saving for a C6. I don't know. Your opinions are appreciated. Please don't flame me, I am too pissed already. My exact mods are in my sig. Thanks.

 

my simplistic opinion is that your injectors are still too big at 30#, and the 200cc runners in your heads are probably too big even for a 383.

 

What cam is in there? I think More likes to run something like 222/230 or similar. If you are not subjected to smog testing, you could probably run a much bigger cam and get over 500 at the crank. I know the AFR heads are capable of those numbers with around a 240/240 cam. From what I understand, the exhaust port design is very different from the Darts (great heads). AFR told me that they are even smaller than a stock D-port. I have been talking to an Accell authorized shop and understand that the DFI Gen 7 should be able to easily tame very big cams for idle and driveability. You may want to give TJ Wong a jingle for additional insight.

 

The cam card says 220-229. I believe those are the specs for the stock Comp Cam they start out with. From what I understand, they custom grind from that point. They will not tell me what the exact spec's are. "It's a mystery". I just need to get the car through smog this month, then I'll have 2 years. I agree that the DFI should tame it. Will a bigger cam net me that much more power???

 

I understand that you are using the same shop as a good friend of mine that has a similar setup from TPIS. (except using the stock computer) Those numbers are very real. You may want to contact Mike and get his feedback. (Feel free to email me)

 

Jerky...

We have seen this time and time again from people. These setups NEED to be put together right, and with the correct components. The fact that the bearing spun on the first motor leads me to believe the work might be a little shotty.

When a setup is put together correct, it WILL perform. Look at Jims 383, 121MPH off the trailer, our 406, and 434s. A little tweak here and there and they continue to gain.

The problem with even doing chips, and its a big risk, is your relying on the motor to be built correctly. Cam degreed in PROPERLY, and about 100 other things that could seriously disrupt a productive engine.

Furthermore the ability to diagnose what is wrong is just as hard as taking it all apart and starting from scratch. Then you KNOW its done right. This leads me to my suggestion. I know your close to us, so why don't you try to coordinate with us to do just that over the winter.

Its a terrible thing to have to do, but your going to be shooting into the dark trying to find the cause of the problems. There are WAY too many things that need to be done exact that will either make you or break you.

I would suggest one step further with the injectors. Going to 24#er would clean it up even more. I think we have proven that they work beyond a shadow of a doubt. Its almost silly for people to argue otherwise now with Jims 383 now on the prowl and Corky's 434 sporting ~3-4 year old 24# injectors clicking off 10.7s in 4000' DA weather. I am still waiting for the so called overheating and damage to happen to them. What do you figure Cork, you have about 1000 runs on those injectors now?

 

First of all, re-read the original post. Jerky said he had an original head/cam car from MORE (no 383) when the spun rod bearing occurred. Same thing occurred to me earlier this year.

And how many times have you run your car WOT for 30 minutes at a time? I can prove that they are too small for this kind of application. You show me anybody running their car hard for long extended periods of time and I will show you someone not running 24 # injectors.

I have no idea how Jerky plans on using his vehicle, but blanket statements like this is just spreading misinformation as far as I'm concerned.

Mike

 

All your advice is good. I just got back from picking up the car. Let me say the John at Woodbridge Dyno told me that he would absolutely not tune the car for ultimate WOT numbers. He said he would give me the best numbers SAFELY. Let me say, I just drove it back about 60 miles - country road, stop and go, and hiway - all at 90* outside. It runs like stock!!!!! No hiccups, no coughing. When I get on it, it goes like stink up to 6400 rpm where he set the cut out. I am disappointed that I did not get more HP, but I am definately happy with the driveability. I will post the dyno run and A/F as soon as I can scan them in. BTW, this is not a drag only car. It's to be a cruiser/sometime drag car/sometime autocross/and general rice eater.

 

Here is the dyno run with the first run with the tune the "first shop" left me with:





this is the Fuel pressure and A/F. He got it pretty level:

 

Dude, where is that chill pill when I need it Oh there it is...

Ok. I see that he said in his post that the rod bearing went on the original motor, my bad....


Generalizations / Mis-information huh? :

Ok let me ask you first...who the F on this forum runs there car at WOT for 30 minutes non-stop? You can prove they are too small for that sorta application....well I guess that is fine, cause I am sure 99.9% of the people here will ask you who needs to support an application like that. You running NASCAR events with your vette? Winning anything?

I am not going to travel down the road of argueing with you about it. You already in your first post, CLEARLY stated your capacity with your blanket statements. I listed several prime example of cars above that will knock the socks off anything that comes close to them with bigger injectors and = CI motors, and can add a few more to the list as well.

I will say what I said when I did the SD vs MAF comparison, you can disagree, but until you come to the table with some better testing or relavant facts its all just Bull Chit.

30 minutes at WOT.... do you need 50#ers if you go 1 hour WOT?

Sometimes the world around me scares me.


Jerky....Glad the setup is running good for you now. I will let you know when we are coming back down to Mason and you can come over and do some racing with us...

 

Great Ski -- I'd love to come watch you all. Maybe Steve will show up too. I hear that 75-80 dragway up the road in Urbana has sold out to a developer so I imagine it will be that much more crowded now at Mason Dixon.

 

always hate to hear of strips closing...

We will announce when we are coming down. I raced with Steve early in the year....we'll probably be back down that way in the fall for some good weather.

 

One of these i wil learn what WOT means

 

jesse i am glad you awnsweared it before i got home at 30 min wot in one of our cars we better rent daytona to hold 200+ mph for 30 min straght but why would i be doing that dont know either

 

Corky....Ahhhh what do you know. You know if you would be running 42+#ers you would be running 9s, maybe even 8s if you went with 50+ers. Can't believe you would spend all that money on that setup of yours, countless hours with us on the phone over the winter - conversing about heads/cams/setup etc, and you chince on the injectors...and sell yourself a second short of possible ET. All for one of the cheapest components you can buy.....

One of these days you and I will figure out what we are doing.. Just keep your eyes and ears open

 

They are called road racers you know-it-all. When was the last time you took your car out on a road course for a 30 minute jaunt at full throttle? I'll tell you when... NEVER!

 

Forget it Mike. These are the same guys that are going to do autocrossing and road course events with automatics and 3000 rpms stall converters. (At least theoretically the last time someone tried to explain road course dynamics to them) Their world consists of 1320' passes and then letting the car cool down for the next pass.

 

The only thing i can put my finger on is your heads. (I would say that the 'mystery cam' is not that much of a mystery) Depending on when you got the Top End kit you probably got either the Comp Cams 220/230 with .533/.533 lift (1.6rr) or the Crane Cams 220/230 with .542/.563 (1.6s).

The Dart Pros are good heads (that Top End kit does work) but the 200s are a little small for the 383. If you have the Crane cam, the ONLY differences between our two setups are I've got the Dart Pro 215cc heads and the extra 16 cu in.

Yes I am running the 30# injectors.



luvmy92, forget it. Those are the same guys that were going to do autocrosses and road courses with automatics and 3000/4000 rpm (whatever they are running now) TCs. {at least theoretically, the last time someone tried to example the dynamics of driving on a road course} For them life doesn't exist outside of their 1320' and they have no concept of turning 6000rpms for 3000' {front straight at Summit}

 

Jerkyboy,

If you haven't listened to John and gotten the exhaust straightened out, do it. Go to Robert's in Woodbridge to get that thing fixed up with a full 3" all the way, no kinks, no restrictions. You'll be glad you did.

See my sig. Happy customer of John and Robert.

 

WIDE OPEN THROTTLE