Header question
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 6
From: Winchester Ontario
Header question
My buddy, a Mustang owner says long tube headers will not make as much hp as shorties. He said he's read it at stangnet and places like that.
I tell him, the long tubes will raise the upper rpm range a bit, giving him more horsepower while maybe sacrificing some bottom end torque.
Please tell me who's right, and could you back it up with evidence cuz I'll redirect him to this thread.
I tell him, the long tubes will raise the upper rpm range a bit, giving him more horsepower while maybe sacrificing some bottom end torque.
Please tell me who's right, and could you back it up with evidence cuz I'll redirect him to this thread.
Large Impressive Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,811
Likes: 71
From: Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07
You're going to listen to someone who drives a Ford? 
He's full of crap.
I had vowed to not get into anymore header discussions, but this is a new wrinkle. I couldn't resist.... Check out headerdesign.com You'll have all the evidence you need.
He's full of crap.I had vowed to not get into anymore header discussions, but this is a new wrinkle. I couldn't resist.... Check out headerdesign.com You'll have all the evidence you need.
Last edited by Corvette Kid; Jul 27, 2004 at 02:02 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 0
From: Houston Texas
I started of with 1 3/4 Slp shortie headers and changed to 1 3/4 TPIS long tube headers. What a difference. Car revved so much quicker and pulled much harder on top end. Some have hp figures to back this up. I believe there is usually a minimum of a 15hp difference depending on your mods. How many race cars do you see with shorties?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,043
Likes: 3
From: San Jose Pat Tillman - American Hero
I don't know about Mustangs, but on CORVETTES, you are correct, sir. LT headers *will* provide a significantly higher gain than shorties. In fact, I've heard it said that the stock exhaust manifolds for our cars (LT1/LT4, anyway) will flow as well as shorties, if not just a little less. Tell your buddy to stick to 'Stangs.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
I think, technically, and to the extreme, that your buddy is right. For peak horsepower, only. If your engine rpms will never drop below 5-6000 rpms, I think the short tubes, properly tuned can make more horsepower. Look at the headers on a AA fuel dragster or a funny car. However, for anything you're actually going to DRIVE, long tubes, have a much broader torque range, that will provide an increase in usable performance. If you have a VERY wild engine and want to make the biggest number possible on a dyno, shorties are the way to go. But if you're headed down to the local "In N Out" store for a six pack, shorties suck.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
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Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Well, since you bud is a Stang owner, agree with him and urge him to install shorties onto his street engine. 
Indeed top fuel doesn't even run true headers, they just fire directly from each exhaust port into individual pipes. But with 7k CHP on tap do they realy need to tune the exhaust!
The power band to which the header is tuned is determined in part by the length of tubing from exhaust port to header collector. Remember the lesson taught the C4 TPI intake; the principle is the same...ram tuning. It's all about reversion pulse frequency and intensity. All that is necessary to avoid low end torque loss it to prevent reversion from weakening the charge, which the late L98 D-port heads tend to do nicely.
So, for your debate with your buddy he needs to specify the power band before the issue can be resolved.
Indeed top fuel doesn't even run true headers, they just fire directly from each exhaust port into individual pipes. But with 7k CHP on tap do they realy need to tune the exhaust!
The power band to which the header is tuned is determined in part by the length of tubing from exhaust port to header collector. Remember the lesson taught the C4 TPI intake; the principle is the same...ram tuning. It's all about reversion pulse frequency and intensity. All that is necessary to avoid low end torque loss it to prevent reversion from weakening the charge, which the late L98 D-port heads tend to do nicely.
So, for your debate with your buddy he needs to specify the power band before the issue can be resolved.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by 65Z01
Well, since you bud is a Stang owner, agree with him and urge him to install shorties onto his street engine.
No point in wising up a Phord owner. Lose the argument...Win the race! (On the track)RACE ON!!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 0
From: What did the 5 fingers say to the face? SLAP!!
Originally Posted by Perfusion
In fact, I've heard it said that the stock exhaust manifolds for our cars (LT1/LT4, anyway) will flow as well as shorties, if not just a little less.