C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

1995 vert restore problems

Old Aug 13, 2004 | 09:19 PM
  #1  
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Default 1995 vert restore problems

First time caller, Long time listener =) I’ll try to make my long story short.

In 1998 I picked up a 1995 Corvette Convertible Automatic LS1. I ran the car for 2 years and sometime around 2000-2001 I put the car to sleep. It was inside for around 2.5+ years then had to be moved outside. I didn’t notice but the convertible top had started to go along with a lot of the weather stripping.

Sometime in early spring I decided to sell the car and didn’t have an idea what the car was worth. I had many offers to buy the car but no one wanted to give me a price, they basically wanted me to give them a price most likely in hopes I would underbid the car and they would make out like a bandit. The tires were new (less then 700 miles) and the engine was mint. The car was dirty as hell including the engine compartment. The glass on the convertible top had separated from the cloth and water had been getting inside the car creating a mess plus a musty funk that was anything but pleasant. I then followed eBay Motors as to how much cars from 1994 to 1995 with between 40k –100k miles, all automatic and all convertibles with LS1 engines.

One guy said he was interested and wanted to talk money. I again said I didn’t know what the cars value was because of its current problems. He said he was thinking no more then $8,000.00 . I said that it sounded low but no way out of the question… He then said he wanted to look at the car and at one point had access to it without me being present. He called back and declined his offer to talk. At this point I was getting pissed… The car was a great car with 52k miles, most of which were highway miles as I normally went on 6 hour drives along a highway for around 400 miles each way. Sorry if I’m getting long winded, I’ll try to get to the point. At this point I decided to restore the car. After replacing the battery, both center bezels as the rubber coating had peeled off, after removing the seats and steam cleaning the carpet a half dozed times a side, and hand detailing the car from top to bottom the car started looking really nice.

My next step was to get the old gas (this stuff was old, maybe 2 years old but it did have gas stabilizer before storage) out of the tank. The car fired right up but its idle was very bad. My assumption was the gas… In hopes that the gas had not varnished, I filled the remainder of the tank (it was about 1/3 empty) with 103-octane gas and took the car for a drive on the highway. It was a nice cool day and I had the car in drive vs. over-drive to keep the RPM’s higher and to make the engine a little hotter to burn off any deposits that might have settled in. I watched the heat, as I didn’t want to further damage anything. The car never got over 220 degrees.

After the tank was empty I filled up with normal 93 octane and the car was idling like a kitty cat. Next I ordered a car cover, completely new weather stripping for the top and body, and a new OEM top, headliner plus stay pads. I have not had this replaced, as the top and headliner have not come in yet. I also purchased countless cleaning, detailing, scrubbing, buffing, waxing, and clay baring supplies and went away bringing the car back to life. A few people who had made it know that they wanted to buy the car but refused to give an offer were now depressed that they hadn’t knowing they could have gotten the car for $8,000 and with some elbow grease taken the car back to excellent condition.

So here is where I have my problem. The engine compartment was beyond messy. It had spider webs, leaves, dirt, dust and countless other foreign objects just waiting to be removed. I had picked up engine degreaser and clean green (or whatever the stuff is called) I scrubbed and scrubbed the engine removing four years neglect. She was starting to look almost new. Then I tried to start her. She didn’t want to start. I figured I had somehow gotten water in someplace that I sound not have and decided to let it evaporate. Three days went by with no luck. She still didn’t want to start. It was a partly sunny day and I decided to lift the hood and let it sit in the sun as I plugged the battery charger on to top off the battery and as I cleaned and re-conditioned the seats. 8 hours passed and she still didn’t want to start. She would sound as if she wanted to start, but the just bog out. I tried 4-8 times then left her alone as I could smell gas and I also didn’t want to over heat the starter.

After countless failed attempts, I finally got her to start… but she was idling extremely badly and the check engine light was now on. I wanted to get the engine warm to evaporate any remaining water, so I took her for a short 30 min drive in traffic. I had to put her in neutral at every stop, as she wanted to die if she was standing still while in drive. While stopped and in nutral, if I pressed down on the gas with any force, she would completely bog out and almost die. I finally returned and parked her back in her spot. I then wanted to see if she would start up again in hopes the brain would reset itself. Well she didn’t… She went back to the was she was before I got her to start. Eight or so tires later I gave up for the day and closed her up, covered her and locked the doors… That was about 4 hours ago. I’m leaving her sit over the weekend before I’ll have another chance to play with her again.

Has anyone ever detailed their engine and had this happen to them before?

Is there anything I can or should do?

Thank in advance for any help.

Thom

P.S. So much for trying to make this a short story!
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Old Aug 13, 2004 | 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tossil
First time caller, Long time listener =) I’ll try to make my long story short.

In 1998 I picked up a 1995 Corvette Convertible Automatic LS1. I ran the car for 2 years and sometime around 2000-2001 I put the car to sleep. It was inside for around 2.5+ years then had to be moved outside. I didn’t notice but the convertible top had started to go along with a lot of the weather stripping.

Sometime in early spring I decided to sell the car and didn’t have an idea what the car was worth. I had many offers to buy the car but no one wanted to give me a price, they basically wanted me to give them a price most likely in hopes I would underbid the car and they would make out like a bandit. The tires were new (less then 700 miles) and the engine was mint. The car was dirty as hell including the engine compartment. The glass on the convertible top had separated from the cloth and water had been getting inside the car creating a mess plus a musty funk that was anything but pleasant. I then followed eBay Motors as to how much cars from 1994 to 1995 with between 40k –100k miles, all automatic and all convertibles with LS1 engines.

One guy said he was interested and wanted to talk money. I again said I didn’t know what the cars value was because of its current problems. He said he was thinking no more then $8,000.00 . I said that it sounded low but no way out of the question… He then said he wanted to look at the car and at one point had access to it without me being present. He called back and declined his offer to talk. At this point I was getting pissed… The car was a great car with 52k miles, most of which were highway miles as I normally went on 6 hour drives along a highway for around 400 miles each way. Sorry if I’m getting long winded, I’ll try to get to the point. At this point I decided to restore the car. After replacing the battery, both center bezels as the rubber coating had peeled off, after removing the seats and steam cleaning the carpet a half dozed times a side, and hand detailing the car from top to bottom the car started looking really nice.

My next step was to get the old gas (this stuff was old, maybe 2 years old but it did have gas stabilizer before storage) out of the tank. The car fired right up but its idle was very bad. My assumption was the gas… In hopes that the gas had not varnished, I filled the remainder of the tank (it was about 1/3 empty) with 103-octane gas and took the car for a drive on the highway. It was a nice cool day and I had the car in drive vs. over-drive to keep the RPM’s higher and to make the engine a little hotter to burn off any deposits that might have settled in. I watched the heat, as I didn’t want to further damage anything. The car never got over 220 degrees.

After the tank was empty I filled up with normal 93 octane and the car was idling like a kitty cat. Next I ordered a car cover, completely new weather stripping for the top and body, and a new OEM top, headliner plus stay pads. I have not had this replaced, as the top and headliner have not come in yet. I also purchased countless cleaning, detailing, scrubbing, buffing, waxing, and clay baring supplies and went away bringing the car back to life. A few people who had made it know that they wanted to buy the car but refused to give an offer were now depressed that they hadn’t knowing they could have gotten the car for $8,000 and with some elbow grease taken the car back to excellent condition.

So here is where I have my problem. The engine compartment was beyond messy. It had spider webs, leaves, dirt, dust and countless other foreign objects just waiting to be removed. I had picked up engine degreaser and clean green (or whatever the stuff is called) I scrubbed and scrubbed the engine removing four years neglect. She was starting to look almost new. Then I tried to start her. She didn’t want to start. I figured I had somehow gotten water in someplace that I sound not have and decided to let it evaporate. Three days went by with no luck. She still didn’t want to start. It was a partly sunny day and I decided to lift the hood and let it sit in the sun as I plugged the battery charger on to top off the battery and as I cleaned and re-conditioned the seats. 8 hours passed and she still didn’t want to start. She would sound as if she wanted to start, but the just bog out. I tried 4-8 times then left her alone as I could smell gas and I also didn’t want to over heat the starter.

After countless failed attempts, I finally got her to start… but she was idling extremely badly and the check engine light was now on. I wanted to get the engine warm to evaporate any remaining water, so I took her for a short 30 min drive in traffic. I had to put her in neutral at every stop, as she wanted to die if she was standing still while in drive. While stopped and in nutral, if I pressed down on the gas with any force, she would completely bog out and almost die. I finally returned and parked her back in her spot. I then wanted to see if she would start up again in hopes the brain would reset itself. Well she didn’t… She went back to the was she was before I got her to start. Eight or so tires later I gave up for the day and closed her up, covered her and locked the doors… That was about 4 hours ago. I’m leaving her sit over the weekend before I’ll have another chance to play with her again.

Has anyone ever detailed their engine and had this happen to them before?

Is there anything I can or should do?

Thank in advance for any help.

Thom

P.S. So much for trying to make this a short story!
Well- it does not sound good...There are quite a bit of things that are not water friendly under the hood...one being the Opti-Spark (Optical Distributer) its located in the front of the engine behind the water pump...when water gets into it...it pretty much does what you described above...just for info purposes...your engine is an LT1 not an LS1 (LS1's are in the new C5's) The opti spark is a VERY expensive part to replace (most are $200 - $300 or better just for the part, then you have to install it) you may be able to pull it out and clean\dry it off...but if you read some posts here about it...some people have had to toss several hundred dollars into the car to get them running after an engine bath...Hopefully you didn't put too much water in there and can get things to dry off...

The previous owner of my 94 had the dealer replace the Opti and water pump (as the pump leaked into the Opti and shorted it out) to the tune of $1300...its not pretty!
Good luck- the guys here can hopefully shed some more light on this for you...
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Old Aug 13, 2004 | 11:36 PM
  #3  
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Default Yep, LT1 not LS1... My bad

Oh boy! Doesn't sound good!!!! Is there anything I can do to test this Opti unit to tell if it went bad???

Again, sorry for the uber post I made before...
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Old Aug 14, 2004 | 05:55 AM
  #4  
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Sounds like classic Opti Spark failure.....sorry. How much water/moisture did you apply to the engine compartment during cleaning? The Opti is pretty sensitive to moisture and will react the way your car is.

You also noted that you are receiving a check engine light...your car is trying to tell you something. If you have a scanner, I'd check that code for sure.

Also take a look at your water pump and the weep hole at it's base. Water pumps like to leak right onto the water sensitive Opti.

My water pump and Opti failed at 25,500 miles to the tune of $1,200.00. I also had plugs and wires done at the same time since the car was apart anyway.

Definitely investigate the Opti.
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Old Aug 14, 2004 | 01:02 PM
  #5  
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Default Sorry, More questions...

Now I have a place to start. Finding out the error code is a necessity for sure. Does anyone know where I can find an inexpensive scanner?

In addidtion, if it is the Opti. Would replacing it with something like this "The Delteq Opti-Direct Solution" from http://www.delteq.com/opti_stage1.htm be an upgrade from the stock system... or would a MSD 6AL Multiple Spark Discharge Ignition be another choice as a replacement?

I called and got a price of a new 1995 Opti-Spark for $329.00 with $8 for shipping to Chicago from http://www.samtaylor.com/ . About how many hours of labor should I expect a shop to charge me for? I know you need to remove the water pump to do this so would changing the spark plug and spark plug wires at the same time be advised?
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Old Aug 14, 2004 | 04:09 PM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by Tossil
Now I have a place to start. Finding out the error code is a necessity for sure. Does anyone know where I can find an inexpensive scanner?

In addidtion, if it is the Opti. Would replacing it with something like this "The Delteq Opti-Direct Solution" from http://www.delteq.com/opti_stage1.htm be an upgrade from the stock system... or would a MSD 6AL Multiple Spark Discharge Ignition be another choice as a replacement?

I called and got a price of a new 1995 Opti-Spark for $329.00 with $8 for shipping to Chicago from http://www.samtaylor.com/ . About how many hours of labor should I expect a shop to charge me for? I know you need to remove the water pump to do this so would changing the spark plug and spark plug wires at the same time be advised?
The delteq system would be an upgrade...there are a few guys going that route...and some going the LS1 (C5) route of a coil to each plug...

The Opti swap would be a few hours (for a good mechanic) and while you are in there...change the water pump and if the wires and plugs have been in there a while...might as well do thosel...its not fun after the fact! Just did my wire\plug change on the 94...

Like I mentioned (and one other person) expect a dealer to charge $1200 to $1300 for these (Opti and H2O pump) the wires were another $250! YIKES! :shocked:
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Old Aug 14, 2004 | 06:46 PM
  #7  
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After you spent a lot of $ to restored. Might as well keep.



Bruce
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Old Aug 15, 2004 | 05:11 PM
  #8  
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Default Does anyone know where I can find an inexpensive scanner?

Does anyone know where I can find an inexpensive scanner to check the error code?
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Old Aug 15, 2004 | 05:56 PM
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On the Diagnostic connector above the driverside knee.

The 16 pin connector looks like this.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16

Take a piece of wire and short pin 4 to pin 12.

Turn the igniton to run (don't start the car).

Look at the speedometer and odometer display and copy down the numbers you see.

If you miss the numbers, just turn the ignition off then to run again.

If the read out isn't bright enough just turn your parking lights on.
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Old Aug 15, 2004 | 08:12 PM
  #10  
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Default Thanks again!

No kidding!!! It’s that easy! You guys rock!

I cant thank you enough!

Thom
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Old Aug 15, 2004 | 08:31 PM
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Check Sam Taylor's website http://gmparts@samtaylor.com/html/parts.html
I just checked and they're only $229 for the vented one you need. Also, if you're unable to read your codes, the Auto Zone stores, around here at least, will scan them for you for free.
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Old Aug 16, 2004 | 11:40 AM
  #12  
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Default Holy great mother of god!

So I get to work this morning and uncover my baby. I crawl in and reluctantly turn the key fully expecting to hear her crank over but not start. Well MUCH to my amazement, she started!!! I would have to say that she cranked over MAYBE 1/4 of a crank before purring to life!

No check engine light, No sputter or bogging!

How about them apples???

Could it be possible that everything is ok? That sitting over the weekend gave it sufficient time to completely evaporate any standing water?

Should I still consider replacing the Opti-Spark?

Thom

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Old Aug 16, 2004 | 02:37 PM
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You've got enough info on Opti. My thought is that if those tires have been sitting for 2.5 years, I would not trust them to much high-speed driving.
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Old Aug 17, 2004 | 09:09 AM
  #14  
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More than likely the period of time that it sat allowed the Opti to dry out a bit. I say a "bit" because I still would not trust it. Having the Opti leave you stranded is not pleasant, and it could certainly still happen.

If you choose to not replace it at this time, don't drive far from home.... .
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Old Aug 17, 2004 | 06:18 PM
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I once experianced a similar problem with a mate of mines vette, it was water in the tps. although he did have an add-on for the tps, removed it, made sure normal wiring was dry, and she ran fine.
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Old Aug 19, 2004 | 10:17 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Tossil
Now I have a place to start. Finding out the error code is a necessity for sure. Does anyone know where I can find an inexpensive scanner?

In addidtion, if it is the Opti. Would replacing it with something like this "The Delteq Opti-Direct Solution" from http://www.delteq.com/opti_stage1.htm be an upgrade from the stock system... or would a MSD 6AL Multiple Spark Discharge Ignition be another choice as a replacement?

I called and got a price of a new 1995 Opti-Spark for $329.00 with $8 for shipping to Chicago from http://www.samtaylor.com/ . About how many hours of labor should I expect a shop to charge me for? I know you need to remove the water pump to do this so would changing the spark plug and spark plug wires at the same time be advised?

Hi i still have the Delteq units on sale .. at http://www.elitesparkplugs.com/Internetspecials.html

or you can read about the gp here
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263358
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