Anyone running alcohol/water injection?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 1
From: Carlsbad, CA CA
Anyone running alcohol/water injection?
I have decided to increase my boost levels from 8psi to 15psi (if it will get there)
I have been running the T trim without any intercooling without any problems at 7-8psi. I know this probably won't be the case if I run more boost. I just ordered the snow performance water/methanol injection system for $400. Does anyone have any experiences with this product or similar product such as the gaseous intercooling from caroll?
What are your thoughts?
I have been running the T trim without any intercooling without any problems at 7-8psi. I know this probably won't be the case if I run more boost. I just ordered the snow performance water/methanol injection system for $400. Does anyone have any experiences with this product or similar product such as the gaseous intercooling from caroll?
What are your thoughts?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 19
From: Portland Oregon
Originally Posted by zelement
I have decided to increase my boost levels from 8psi to 15psi (if it will get there)
I have been running the T trim without any intercooling without any problems at 7-8psi. I know this probably won't be the case if I run more boost. I just ordered the snow performance water/methanol injection system for $400. Does anyone have any experiences with this product or similar product such as the gaseous intercooling from caroll?
What are your thoughts?
I have been running the T trim without any intercooling without any problems at 7-8psi. I know this probably won't be the case if I run more boost. I just ordered the snow performance water/methanol injection system for $400. Does anyone have any experiences with this product or similar product such as the gaseous intercooling from caroll?
What are your thoughts?
Paul, Mo Bandy is using a Carroll Supercharging Company "Gaseous IC System" basically another name for water injection. He swears by it so email him or perhaps he will post an answer here for you. I too am thinking about going to this. As I have a T trim sitting on my shelf waiting to go into my car. Also another member who I am working on an engine for is also going to a T trim. I have a custom made Spearco IC but I would have to hack my car up to get it in place, and its not something I really want to do. So the only option with going to 12-14lbs of boost will be to do some sort of intercooling which is a water injection system.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 1
From: Carlsbad, CA CA
Originally Posted by tjwong
Paul, Mo Bandy is using a Carroll Supercharging Company "Gaseous IC System" basically another name for water injection. He swears by it so email him or perhaps he will post an answer here for you. I too am thinking about going to this. As I have a T trim sitting on my shelf waiting to go into my car. Also another member who I am working on an engine for is also going to a T trim. I have a custom made Spearco IC but I would have to hack my car up to get it in place, and its not something I really want to do. So the only option with going to 12-14lbs of boost will be to do some sort of intercooling which is a water injection system.
Yeah, the people I have talked to with water injection swears by it. It just seems right for me because I really can't fit an intercooler with my setup without some major modification.
I will try talking to Mo and see what he thinks of it. You should throw on that T trim and have some fun with it!
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 1
From: providence ut
Paul, is the snow system progressive i.e. more water for more boost rather than a set amount when energized ? please post what what you find out from Mo, I'm just waiting to pull the trigger on one. and what are you going to use for water storage............windsheild washer tank?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 19
From: Portland Oregon
Originally Posted by zelement
THanks Tom,
Yeah, the people I have talked to with water injection swears by it. It just seems right for me because I really can't fit an intercooler with my setup without some major modification.
I will try talking to Mo and see what he thinks of it. You should throw on that T trim and have some fun with it!
Yeah, the people I have talked to with water injection swears by it. It just seems right for me because I really can't fit an intercooler with my setup without some major modification.
I will try talking to Mo and see what he thinks of it. You should throw on that T trim and have some fun with it!
I also spoke with the Snow Performance people. I think I may become a dealer with them. There system appears to be simple yet very effective, they gurantee results based on their extensive dyno testing.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,719
Likes: 59
From: Fremont Oh
zelement,
I LOVE my system i bought the Standard PLUS Gaseous injection from Carroll Supercharging ( Blower works) It pumps 15 GPH at 100 psi. I'm using about 2 quarts
At 85 the car pins me to the seat
I went form having to run o2s at 930's to now 900 with ZERO spark knock! I'm running on a good day about 9.5 pounds of boost at 6000.
I just bought new colder plugs form him as well so I should be able to advance the timing a bit as well. ( I'm an engineer so i'm still wringing out power LOL.
If you are still seeing knock you can add additional nozzles... the carroll system will handle over 600 hp before adding extra nozzles...
if you have any questions feel free to shoot me an email... I cannot say enough good about this.. I finally killed the knock gremlin
hope this helps!
Mo
I LOVE my system i bought the Standard PLUS Gaseous injection from Carroll Supercharging ( Blower works) It pumps 15 GPH at 100 psi. I'm using about 2 quarts
At 85 the car pins me to the seat
I went form having to run o2s at 930's to now 900 with ZERO spark knock! I'm running on a good day about 9.5 pounds of boost at 6000.
I just bought new colder plugs form him as well so I should be able to advance the timing a bit as well. ( I'm an engineer so i'm still wringing out power LOL.
If you are still seeing knock you can add additional nozzles... the carroll system will handle over 600 hp before adding extra nozzles...
if you have any questions feel free to shoot me an email... I cannot say enough good about this.. I finally killed the knock gremlin
hope this helps!
Mo
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 1
From: Carlsbad, CA CA
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
zelement,
I LOVE my system i bought the Standard PLUS Gaseous injection from Carroll Supercharging ( Blower works) It pumps 15 GPH at 100 psi. I'm using about 2 quarts
At 85 the car pins me to the seat
I went form having to run o2s at 930's to now 900 with ZERO spark knock! I'm running on a good day about 9.5 pounds of boost at 6000.
I just bought new colder plugs form him as well so I should be able to advance the timing a bit as well. ( I'm an engineer so i'm still wringing out power LOL.
If you are still seeing knock you can add additional nozzles... the carroll system will handle over 600 hp before adding extra nozzles...
if you have any questions feel free to shoot me an email... I cannot say enough good about this.. I finally killed the knock gremlin
hope this helps!
Mo
I LOVE my system i bought the Standard PLUS Gaseous injection from Carroll Supercharging ( Blower works) It pumps 15 GPH at 100 psi. I'm using about 2 quarts
At 85 the car pins me to the seat
I went form having to run o2s at 930's to now 900 with ZERO spark knock! I'm running on a good day about 9.5 pounds of boost at 6000.
I just bought new colder plugs form him as well so I should be able to advance the timing a bit as well. ( I'm an engineer so i'm still wringing out power LOL.
If you are still seeing knock you can add additional nozzles... the carroll system will handle over 600 hp before adding extra nozzles...
if you have any questions feel free to shoot me an email... I cannot say enough good about this.. I finally killed the knock gremlin
hope this helps!
Mo
Tom,
How's the motor coming along? Are you in the process of building it right now? I would love to hear more about it. Yeah, the snow performance kit is the one I am getting. I will be running the 2 nozzle setup because of the HP levels. He told me he wants to break into the GM market so maybe you can help him out.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 285
Likes: 5
From: Grass Valley, Ca.
I'm using a Snow kit on my tow vehicle, 96 Chevy Vortec w/Whipplecharger. With Ca. 91 octane I had knock anytime I was on boost, 6 lbs as delivered in the original Whipple configuration. With a 50/50 mix of methanol/water I eliminated the knock and was able to change the pulley to allow 10 lbs of boost. Now my main problem is belt slippage. Feel free to email me if you have any questions about the Snow "boost cooler".
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 1
From: Carlsbad, CA CA
Originally Posted by Widebody
I'm using a Snow kit on my tow vehicle, 96 Chevy Vortec w/Whipplecharger. With Ca. 91 octane I had knock anytime I was on boost, 6 lbs as delivered in the original Whipple configuration. With a 50/50 mix of methanol/water I eliminated the knock and was able to change the pulley to allow 10 lbs of boost. Now my main problem is belt slippage. Feel free to email me if you have any questions about the Snow "boost cooler".
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,719
Likes: 59
From: Fremont Oh
Zelement,
The install was very straight forward,I took extra time tidying things up that I had been procrastinating. I would say probably about 3 hours. Mine has a on off switchin the cockpit, so it took a little bit to do that.
I'm feeding my system with the wiper fluid "container"... I have been told the same you can use methonal as wiper fliud or concentrated washer fluid with DISTILLED water...
I been dialing in with straight distilled water. I still got rid of the knock and so far I have been able to advance about 2 degrees on the top end. I have the BTM set at 1 degree boost retard and I'm hiting 8 + boost. I think there is more in it I just havent had the time for more testing, I'm out next week traveling
Good luck and enjoy it was certainy money WELL invested!
mo
The install was very straight forward,I took extra time tidying things up that I had been procrastinating. I would say probably about 3 hours. Mine has a on off switchin the cockpit, so it took a little bit to do that.
I'm feeding my system with the wiper fluid "container"... I have been told the same you can use methonal as wiper fliud or concentrated washer fluid with DISTILLED water...
I been dialing in with straight distilled water. I still got rid of the knock and so far I have been able to advance about 2 degrees on the top end. I have the BTM set at 1 degree boost retard and I'm hiting 8 + boost. I think there is more in it I just havent had the time for more testing, I'm out next week traveling
Good luck and enjoy it was certainy money WELL invested!
mo
Pro
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 544
Likes: 0
I just picked up the standard kit from Carroll as well. This is by far the best put together performance kit I have ever seen. Tons of documentation, very very easy install. I haven't completed it yet, only spent about an hour yesterday should have it done tonight.
Greg has tons of good advice, he's been doing this for a while.. I would give him a call or email and let him know what your plans are. He'll help you out.
BTW- I'm running a Vortech kit, stock PSI (for now), and washer tank as my injection tank.
Greg has tons of good advice, he's been doing this for a while.. I would give him a call or email and let him know what your plans are. He'll help you out.
BTW- I'm running a Vortech kit, stock PSI (for now), and washer tank as my injection tank.
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
zelement,
I LOVE my system i bought the Standard PLUS Gaseous injection from Carroll Supercharging ( Blower works) It pumps 15 GPH at 100 psi. I'm using about 2 quarts
At 85 the car pins me to the seat
I went form having to run o2s at 930's to now 900 with ZERO spark knock! I'm running on a good day about 9.5 pounds of boost at 6000.
I just bought new colder plugs form him as well so I should be able to advance the timing a bit as well. ( I'm an engineer so i'm still wringing out power LOL.
If you are still seeing knock you can add additional nozzles... the carroll system will handle over 600 hp before adding extra nozzles...
if you have any questions feel free to shoot me an email... I cannot say enough good about this.. I finally killed the knock gremlin
hope this helps!
Mo
I LOVE my system i bought the Standard PLUS Gaseous injection from Carroll Supercharging ( Blower works) It pumps 15 GPH at 100 psi. I'm using about 2 quarts
At 85 the car pins me to the seat
I went form having to run o2s at 930's to now 900 with ZERO spark knock! I'm running on a good day about 9.5 pounds of boost at 6000.
I just bought new colder plugs form him as well so I should be able to advance the timing a bit as well. ( I'm an engineer so i'm still wringing out power LOL.
If you are still seeing knock you can add additional nozzles... the carroll system will handle over 600 hp before adding extra nozzles...
if you have any questions feel free to shoot me an email... I cannot say enough good about this.. I finally killed the knock gremlin
hope this helps!
Mo
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 1
From: providence ut
Being the proud owner of a super ram manifold that won't distrubute a wet nitrous shot evenly to all cylinders I started to wonder if I would have the same problem with water/ methanol injection.......called lingenfelter tech department and they comfirmed that in fact it is poor at ether nitrous or water injection......but he said all tpi intake systems, tpis, l98, lt1 or what have you, will all starve some of the cylinders..........port injection? how much time, distance do you need to cool the charge?............is injecting water/methanal needed to each cylinder or is cooling the charge enough.....sounds to me like I need an egt on each cylinder to really tell how the engine is proforming. one other thought, how can a dyno shop read the A/F from the rear tail pipe when its after the cat? wouldn't the cat burn the remaining fuel?
Pro
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 544
Likes: 0
The issue with the wet shot system is with the liquid gasoline not staying in suspension all the way into the cylinder. I would think that since ethanol has a much lower boiling point it would have a better shot at it. Of course, at IAT's of 200+ you're not going to have a major issue keeping gasoline in a gasous state either. Problem with a wet NOS shot, you are SUPER cooling the air with NO2 right at the fuel injection point.
On this note... Anyone know of a good place to buy alcohol?? Denatured at Lowes/Home Depot is $10/gal.
On this note... Anyone know of a good place to buy alcohol?? Denatured at Lowes/Home Depot is $10/gal.
Originally Posted by lead foot 85 vet
Being the proud owner of a super ram manifold that won't distrubute a wet nitrous shot evenly to all cylinders I started to wonder if I would have the same problem with water/ methanol injection.......called lingenfelter tech department and they comfirmed that in fact it is poor at ether nitrous or water injection......but he said all tpi intake systems, tpis, l98, lt1 or what have you, will all starve some of the cylinders..........port injection? how much time, distance do you need to cool the charge?............is injecting water/methanal needed to each cylinder or is cooling the charge enough.....sounds to me like I need an egt on each cylinder to really tell how the engine is proforming. one other thought, how can a dyno shop read the A/F from the rear tail pipe when its after the cat? wouldn't the cat burn the remaining fuel?
Pro
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 533
Likes: 6
From: Poinciana Florida
LT-1 W/Vortech T trim and water injection
I'm running what you hope to do. The carroll water injection does the job and is easy to install. I'm running the "big" water nozzle as well as a "small blower pulley". The motors done at 5800 rpm and safely (12-1 AFR) hits about 596 rwhp with 14.5lbs. boost.
You can store sufficient water in the furnished reservoir bag. The only pain comes in tuning inthat you have to remove the "flutter" in rpm due to too much water. You accomplish this by changing nozzles.
All In Fun.
You can store sufficient water in the furnished reservoir bag. The only pain comes in tuning inthat you have to remove the "flutter" in rpm due to too much water. You accomplish this by changing nozzles.
All In Fun.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 544
Likes: 0
Wow... What internals do you have in there??
Originally Posted by RVY
I'm running what you hope to do. The carroll water injection does the job and is easy to install. I'm running the "big" water nozzle as well as a "small blower pulley". The motors done at 5800 rpm and safely (12-1 AFR) hits about 596 rwhp with 14.5lbs. boost.
You can store sufficient water in the furnished reservoir bag. The only pain comes in tuning inthat you have to remove the "flutter" in rpm due to too much water. You accomplish this by changing nozzles.
All In Fun.
You can store sufficient water in the furnished reservoir bag. The only pain comes in tuning inthat you have to remove the "flutter" in rpm due to too much water. You accomplish this by changing nozzles.
All In Fun.
Pro
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 533
Likes: 6
From: Poinciana Florida
Hi MO, I should have followed you and moved to the left coast years ago. Been in and out of Orlando recently between hurricanes looking at housing. NO, The water injection actually came with the Vortech kit. As such it has to be about 7 years old but it does the job. Tell me, I'm using your old Carroll super fueler. When it kicks in @ 4000 rpm the dyno fuel print out looks like a projection of small peaks. I presume this is caused by the selectors turning on and off?? Fuel pressure peaks @62 lbs.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 1
From: Carlsbad, CA CA
I got my kit today from Snow performance. The tank is very small???!!! How often do I have to fill it? Why does it say engine coolant only on the cap of the tank?
Also, the pump is very big, where do you mount that? Would the front of the car on the radiator shroud be a good place? Where the air filter used to be for N/A setups?
Also, the pump is very big, where do you mount that? Would the front of the car on the radiator shroud be a good place? Where the air filter used to be for N/A setups?
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 2
From: Little Rock Arkansas
I ran alcohol injection on my Grand National... I built the system using instructions off of several of the Turbo Buick sites. I used a Hobbs switch to activate the system at 15 psi. It allowed me to run 20 psi of boost and 26 degrees of timing (!) on pump gas... That's with a 50/50 mix of distilled water and VP M1 methanol. It works very well at killing detonation and allowed me to race that car much more cheaply than if I HAD to use C16 every time I wanted to run it. I still ran C16 when I cranked the boost up over 20 psi, though.
-Jeb
-Jeb