OK, I have decided to keep my C4 and get serious. I have found an extremely reputable machine shop. I am going to attempt to pull the engine myself this winter. I want to do this right this time and get some big power out of it. I would like to re-use as many parts that I have if they check out. Question is:
To make the most power and still possibly be emissions legal, it seems that forced induction might be the way to go. I do have an intercooled procharger sitting on my bench. I would like to build the engine to handle as much boost as possible. Does anyone know how much boost the P600b can provide a stroked engine? I will move this to F/I but seem to get more response here. Also thinking of sending the 6spd to ZFDoc for a rebuild. I want a streetable wicked fast C4!!!!

 

I'm not a forced induction guru... but from what I understand, you don't want to put a blower on a stroked motor. I don't remember the reason why. My neighbor is doing a twin turbo SBC in a 41 International... so we had a discussion on this. It would seem that since a dished 8:1 piston is optimal for blower use because it allows for more air to be forced into the cc, a stroked motor would be the an obvious choice. Again, I do NOT remeber this to be completely accurate so I hope someone can help me with this, but my neighbor said that the cylinder pressure from a forced induction stroker motor would be too great and cause parts to brake under heavy loads. I also remember the head gasket being an issue too.

I do know that a 350SBC with 30psi of boost, intercooled on my desktop dyno claims to generate 800+hp depending on intake and exhaust.

 

O'ring the heads, and $pend on a quality bottom end-=it'll last

 

Are you sure you want to go there? Having a C4 and doing a blower to make really big numbers is a hard thing to do. Main reason is that you have to get the power into the blower pulley to make boost, and to make 12 or more pounds of boost in most any C4 be it an LT1 or a L98 you will need at minimum a 8 rib belt or a cogged conversion. All of which is going to cost. Some people say an 8 rib won't work or will slip after 8 or 10 PSI. I have a custom made cogged setup that would cost over $1500 to replicate today, and it too is not without problems. So far mine has been very dependable and has been on the car since 96. I have blown a couple belts off because of lean outs due to problems in the fuel system which of course requires replacement which is a 3 hour job on a LT1 Vortech installation.

Another thing is that once you go this route, you won't get any support from the blower manufacturers. Vortech won't support anything custom made other than to fix the blower when it gets screwed up. I am reasonably sure that Pro-Charger is no different. I don't have intercooling on my car as of yet. I do have a custom made spearco IC sitting on my shelf but as of today I am still hesitant to "hack" up my car to install it. I am seriously thinking about installing a liquid IC system that injects a 50-50 mix of methanol and water into the intake for "gaseous" intercooling which I know works well. Other than the plumbing aspect of it the systems are very simple and very effective.

If I were you and because you have a very good alternative, because you have a L98. I would build or buy one of them 434, 427 or 454 small blocks using a Dart Little M block or just buy one of the Steve shafiroff Ultra-street engines or a Bill Mitchell Hardcore big cubic inch small block. The Bill Mitchell/World Products 454 makes over 600Hp normally aspirated in street trim. All without the complexity of a blower. I think Steve shafiroff makes a 472 now, if you can beleive that.

http://www.shafiroff.com/472_675_engine.asp

You get that engine, and have Jeb fabricate a EFI manifold. I will sell you a DFI control system help you tune it and now you got some big power numbers and a "wicked" fast C4

I am not knocking blowers but I am just wanting to tell you that it is a pain in the butt. I have one, and I am presently doing another engine build for it, to make more power with a larger blower. In fact I am doing two engines of identical builds, one is for a forum member here These are 8.6:1 engines with large AFR 210s sitting on top with custom ground cams and all forged internals including billet rods and custom Ross pistons using 2618 alloy forgings. For rings I am using Akerly and Childs extreme HTD (high tensile ductile) steel top rings. These are not moly filled rings, because if you "rattle" (detonate) one time too many you will blow the moly filling off the ring with a moly filled ring. I am expecting 700Hp with 12 PSI of boost. The blocks are preped using Pro-Gram engineering splayed billet steel caps, all five caps are replaced including the rear cap. Pro-Gram engineering is the only one offering a billet steel single peice seal rear main cap, this eliminates the need for "strapping" the cap for additional strength. These blocks started out as seasoned F body two bolt main blocks. I personally inspected them before shipping them off to the machine shop.

By the time you do what I am doing to build a stout blower engine, and if you had to buy the blower, and build a 8 rib drive system. You could own one of them scafiroff engines

 

TJ, that's exactly the advice and info I was looking for. I know that those Shiroff engines make the claimed power with carbs. Also, I still need to get through emissions. I already have a DFI system and If I knew that I could control it enough with DFI to get it through emissions, I would think about it. I also heard that with the Little M blocks, there is still some modifications for accesories etc....

 

Emissions would be a problem In that case the solution is to go with a blower to get the power without compromising emissions with a large camshaft. But there is still the problem of belt slippage with high boost levels. It can be done as it has already its just a cost issue.

 

What is the feasibility of the Banks Twin Turbo setup? They make the complete motor, and also sell a top end kit with turbos and plumbing, and you could do your own bottom end. They use Accel DFI for control (which he already has), and I'm sure that they could provide you a good base program to go with. The big question is packaging and whether that would fit into the C4 engine compartment without serious modification.

Given that he has a Vert, I might be willing to lose things like AC for 650+ HP. :-)

Just an idea.

Ron

 

Hey Ron! How are things in Cleveland? That Banks system is neat. I saw a complete system on an engine stand sitting there at SEMA the other day. It is very impressive to say the least! I am not sure how well it would fit in a C4 engine bay but it would be a cool setup and it would pass emissions pretty easy. I spoke with Gale Banks at his booth when I was there and he told me that the cam in the "mild" 650hp versions were very mild cams. So getting one to pass emissions should be quite easy. The fuel management on the engines I saw there were all supplied by Accel DFI.

 

Well, the A/C hasn't worked since I've had the car so that's not a big deal. The turbo set up would be neat. I'll have to check into the gale banks system. Always been curious about the Meaney twin turbo L98 but could never find any real specs on it.

 

Tom,

Things here are cool -- other than the fact that my insurance runs out in about a week or so and the car gets tucked away for a few months. Put lots of miles on the MP stroker and it's been great so far. Hope your new business is getting off the ground and going the way that you want!

Banks ships the DFI with all of the crate motors, and if it does fit into the C4 bay, would make an interesting alternative to the Callaway TT cars in terms of another option.

Ron

 

It was built by racer Mike Moran (Moran Motorsports) in Michigan and assembled (the car) @ Rad Rides by Troy in Manteno, IL.

Here's a cool article about one of Moran's projects, a QUAD turbo. :-)

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...05em_turbo_bb/

Here's the Rad Rides website:

http://www.radrides.com

I would suspect that trying to duplicate this setup would be obscenely expensive, but you only live once, right?

Ron

 

Just called Banks. Any guess on how much they want for a turnkey engine????


$38,000 big ones!!!! Little out of my price range

Oh well, back to earth.

 

Hey Jerkyboy, I would think you could build a 434 or similar and with cats and you DFI you should be able to tune it to pass emissions. The other option is to build your 383 with 10to1 compression, mild cam and run a lower 6-8psi of boost. They should both make 500+HP. The intake may not pass a visual inspection though depending on what you use. What HP numbers are you looking for.

 

Wow... I guess the Callaway option is still cheaper. :-)

Ron

 

Hey Chris, I don't know why my location doesn't show up anymore but I live in VA. The engine is already 10:1 and forged on the bottom end. My cam is pretty mild for a 383. I do have a procharger sitting on my bench. I really want something that's going to get me to 500rwhp. Seems like forced induction is the only streetable way to get me there.

 

I don't know much about super/turbochargers, but I wanted to say that your making a good choice staying with the C4!

 

I would say to stick with your current bottom end, get a cam in the 236/236 duration area designed for supercharging. Bolt on the supercharger, start with 6psi and see how it feels(6psi may help to keep you out of the belt slippage problem), bump it up to 8psi if your not happy, switch to 36lb or 42lb injectors and you should be close to the HP you want. With the DFI tuning abilites you should be good for 500rwhp. Do you know what your current heads flow? Keep the Miniram also. Also change your exhaust to a dual 3" setup like the B&B exhaust with X-pipe.

 

Chris, my current heads flow 280 cfm at .550 lift. I forget the exhaust though. They are Dart Pro 1's and have been ported by MORE Performance. My exhaust is a custom true dual 3" with twin bullet cats, X pipe and 40 series flows

 

Good head flow numbers. Almost exactly what mine flow(289cfm@.550). I have heard that the Flowmasters dont flow very well. I am shooting for 450-480rwhp on my set up. A friend of my switched from 3" 40's Flowmasters to 3" Dynomax ultraflows on his hopped up bigblock truck and picked up .2 in the quater mile... I should have dyno #'s on mine in a month or so. Jesse did my chip and we are still working on the tune. My engine seems to like more fuel than the regular 383 setups using the smaller bore 350 block. Hopefully this means more HP I would go with what you have. Change the cam and injectors and add boost.

 

Also you could O-ring the heads to be safe, but at 6/8psi and as long as you dont get any detonation you should be safe with a set of marine Felpro head gaskets or a set of copper gaskets especially with the DFI setup.

This is just all my 2 cents worth. There are always other ways to go. I am sure others will chime in.