That's an exploded view of ALL the parts. It comes assembled to an extent.

I saw this installed on Horsepower TV and believe it or not they finished putting it in, in just a 1/2 hour. Can't be too hard.

Seriously, if you get the intake and exhaust manifolds off, it seems that it bolts right up.

With many blowers you have to replace the hood on a C4, then get it painted, etc..

 

Yeah but wouldn't that thing be nasty in a 91, etc? How would you make it fit?

 

Aluminum flywheel screws with driveability and makes the car sound like hell, so I refuse to do that. A lighter dampener is a possibility but an LT1 dampener is hard to come by anyway, you're spending a ton of money just for the gamble that it'll make more power. Aftermarket wheels are usually actually heavier than stock, those that aren't I really don't like the look of. I'm also trying to completely maintain the stock look. The driveshaft is already aluminum, the only thing you're gonna find even lighter is carbon fiber, which is gonna cost a small fortune for a miniscule gain. 58mm TB is 100% useless on my car, now if I had the blower already then I'd consider the 58...

As an aside, let me explain. Horsepower is addictive, and as such you can never have too much. My car is at the stage now that any significant power upgrades are extremely costly. I can either supercharge it or turbocharge it, or build a stroker. I don't consider nitrous a feasable option because I don't want track-only horsepower.

Every possibility right now costs a small fortune. A supercharger is the least costly and easiest to implement because bolt on kits are offered. It also offers the most bang for the buck. In spending the same money to lighten the drivetrain I might only pick up some 10-20 HP, where the supercharger has the ability to pick up 100 easily. The bang for the buck is much higher on the supercharger. I fully understand that the "bang" might well be the engine, but that's the risk I'm trying to determine.

So please, lets stick to the original question. What are the issues encountered when adding boost to a heads / cam car with a relatively high static compression ratio? Everything else really is a moot point.

 

I don't mean to be an a$$, but ... I watch several of those programs on speed vision and I watched the guys on TRUCKS install a lift kit and 44" tires in a half hour... the reality is... film editing and behind the scenes stuff eliminate the hard work that is really involved. It's kinda like a cooking show... They open a drawer and already have the ingredients premeasured... when I open a drawer, I don't have the same effects.

My neighbor and I are installing a twin turbo 350 in a 41 International so there is no computer, ASR, wiring harness crap to have to deal with or work around and it still took over and hour to simply bolt the items to the block.

 

Tell me about it, same situation here. But for me it's option 4, start fixing little things, detail it to the max, and turn it into a no-apologies good looking car. That will run with a Z06 and blow the doors off anything else.

I did a lot of reading when considering the Jackson Racing supercharger for my Honda. I read somewhere that a centrifugal supercharger like the Procharger makes more boost the more you spin it, unlike a Roots type like the Eaton on my Buick. This matches well with a big cam engine in that the cam overlap will reduce the (already low) boost at low and medium revs, while the engine can handle more boost at high revs.

Go for it!!! Of course you know to tune it well before cutting it loose.

 

Naw, that's not true. If you use a stock Valeo pressure plate, it feels identical to a Dual Mass. This crap about having to rev the thing up and dump the clutch to keep from bogging is just BS. The only driveability issue is the fact that you have to shift quicker because the dang thing revs up so fast.
In fact, I'd say the effect on driveability is just about equivalent to a rear-end gear swap.

You've got a McLeod dual friction clutch, right? I KNOW it's not any less driveable than that.

Noise?? Come on, you'd never hear it over your exhaust.

With all the other mods to your car, I'm just surprised you haven't done this one...

 

Nathan, et al,
I've been considering mods such as yours and I was wondering what kind of lifespan one can expect out of the trans and driveline with 380 rwhp? I drive mine daily (weather permitting) and usually get it opened up 4-5 times a day.
Also, how long will a worked up lt1 such as yours typically last?

thanks

 

NOS kit, 100 shot. Not too expensive and would go great with your mods. What do you think?

 

I only drove my car stock for 6 months. It's had various stages of modifications for the last 4 years. My last serious modification, the 1.7 rockers have been on the car since May 2003. My car is a daily driver that sees a lot more mileage than most Vettes do. It doesn't have extremely high miles, 83k. But I bought it with 50k. With all my mods it's 100% as reliable as it ever has been. I get in it, turn the key, and drive it. I also get on it hard quite often and I've put over 100 quarter mile passes on it.

I don't expect the motor to last forever, but I expect it to last every bit as long as it would have stock. In fact I actually expect it to last a little bit longer because all the parts I've upgraded are better than stock. The only thing left really is the rotating assembly, and with a good synthetic oil wear is hardly an issue. In it's current state of modification I could easily see the engine lasting 200k miles and I wouldn't have to do anything but change the plugs / oil / coolant.

As for the rest of the drivetrain, drive it normally and it'll last as long as stock. Drive it stupidly and it'll break.

 

And the bottle would be empty by the time I got home from work. Why can't anybody understand that nitrous is not real, all the time horsepower?

It's a fantastic tool to get a good 1/4 mile time, but I don't want that. I want awesome power on demand ALL the time. If I just wanted a fast track time I'd strip the car down to the frame and put 4.56 gears in it.

 

I used to think like that, but then every time I get my foot into my stock 300 hp LT1 on the street, I'm going 100 mph in a heartbeat. There's only a handful of places I can drive 100 mph or more without a)getting killed b)killing someone else c)going to jail. Even then we're only talking about a minute or two, tops.

So with that in mind, where are you going to use all this "real" horsepower? There are only two places that come to mind. The dragstrip or a road race course. If you are going to track the car, as in road race, then yeah you would want 500 hp on tap all the time. But if you're just going to the dragstrip on the weekends, and driving somewhat aggresively around the backroads the rest of the week, something like nitrous seems to be the perfect option for you.

Not trying to be a butt or anything, just trying to get an idea of what you're expecting to do with all this horsepower.

 

I was kidding.

 

Have you ever been in a 500 HP street car, I mean one without nitrous? You see when done properly you can easily drive them EVERY day and they are extremely mild mannered. Push the go pedal and it's instant insane power, and you don't have to prep anything. Technically speaking the stock LT1 is more power than I or anybody else NEEDS. That's beside the point though now isn't it? Or do you really drive a Honda and just pretend like you own a vette?

Have you ever been in a car that can roast the tires from a 40 MPH roll? That's just plain fun. Remember a supercharger doesn't make boost all the time, in fact 99% of normal driving would be non-boost conditions. This means that the car still has all of it's street manners that it always had until you press the pedal. It's the same effect as nitrous, you just don't have to refill the tank.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here................... CHANGE YOUR CAM !!
You've got all the goodies.... and the HOT CAM is a good grind, but truth be told, it's decade old technology. I'm sure with a little research you can find a newer grind that is still streetable and will give you solid 400+ rwhp. Thats not a major gain like a supercharger but with your set-up you could do it for less than $300.

just a thought................

 

Another person has missed the point. I promise there are cams out there that make more power than the hot cam, I'm not that stupid.

I'm not talking about 20 extra horsepower, I'm talking about 100 extra horsepower, there's a huge difference.

 

Yes. 1998 TT Supra. 500+ rwhp. Mostly unusable on the street, unless you're running drugs to Florida. What's your point?


Right, just like nitrous. You gotta refill the gas tank a lot with a car that roasts the tires from a 40 mph roll, too. How often are you wanting to roast the tires on the way home from work?

So your original question was whether or not you could run a Vortech blower with your stock bottom end and modified heads and cam. Several highly knowledgable people (myself NOT included) have responded saying they didn't think it would be a good idea, and then given you other options. Sounds to me like you still think you can run the Vortech, and anyone who suggests otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

I'm simply curious as to what you are wanting to do with the car. That's all. Try not to take it so personally.

 

There are a lot of things not correct in this thread. But I don't have the time to point each one out.

Nathan, the bottom line is you want power all the time, right? Then the best thing I could suggest for you to do is build a good 383 setup - with good internals. I suggest 85vets combo that will run the socks off most big blocks at the strip at 11.2@121MPH and cruises the street like a stocker.

Now if you do want to do the SC, you WILL NOT get the full potential of the SCer with your higher compression. There are no two ways around it. There is a reason that guys built 9:1 compression motors when using blowers/turbos. It has to do with the efficiency factors and also as mentioned the dynamic compression. Think about it for a second. Your already at say in terms of dynamic compression 10.8:1 you put boost on it, your up to 11.8:1 before you can get any effect boost built up. So at this point you picked up maybe 4% power at 320Hp that is about 12.4HP. Then what happens you keep bumping up the boost, and you eventually end up with say 6psi of boost and your compression is now around 14:1 and your starting to make some decent power gains at ~say 50+ hp.

What is happening is two fold. 1. you will never fully realize the potential of a SC on a higher compression motor. So that leads you to point 2. you will then bump the pressure up to overcome the lack of efficiency and that will result in you getting very high compression pressure, which WILL lead to a failure without a doubt. Will it happen first time out, probably not. Second, third -- you guess. Its a high price to pay when it does, and it will. You have to realize your getting extra power cause something is changing in the motor- your packing in more air, that is then compressed the same as it was at 10.8:1 only with the boost its now 14:1, this severely increased the stresses on EVERY part of the rotating assembly. It doesn't matter if you take your time methodically or not. That approach will prolong it perhaps, but you will reach a point where you will break the camels back with the last straw.

Then ontop of that you have a motor with some age on it. Your expetation of 200k with at setup like this ontop of it is not even close to being realistic. Especially since it sounds like you plan on floggin it every chance you get. I give it 10k miles if that.

We build ours to take well over 1000 hp, with connecting rods and pistons that are Top of the line 2k dollars billet rods, and we still expect every 2 years with 11.8:1 compression and alot of drag runs on them to pull them apart every 2-3 years for bearing check and other component evaluation.

Nobody is saying you "can't" do it, but you really should heed the warning if your going to ask the questions. I wish you luck, and promise not to say, "I told you so."

 

It's also a liquid to air I/C car which cools the charge better than Air/Air (particularly when you cram ice in it, Jim ) And as he said, elevation makes a HUGE difference in what you can run with both forced induction and timing. I was out in Albuquerque a few months ago tuning FAST system on a customer's '80 Vette that I built and would you believe that SOB made best power with 46 degrees of timing!!! No detonation, nothing, just hp!

One word for you, Nathan... Bottle...
-Jeb

 

No, I would never expect it to last 200k miles with a blower added, I said it will last 200k miles with what I have RIGHT now, very big difference.

I am not discounting what anybody says, I'm just trying to point out that people offer other "solutions" that are not what I'm asking for.

I know full well what nitrous can do and what a stroker can do. Believe me if I had the money I would build a low compression stroker with a blower and nitrous on top of it, but that's not gonna happen. I asked a specific question and all I get for "answers" are sidesteps that say to do something else. The fact of the matter is that I don't have money to do ANY of the possible choices right now so it doesn't really matter.

I just thought that we might be able to engage in a discussion about the problems encountered when trying to run a supercharger with an already high compression engine. Some people have legitimately addressed that, others have strictly said "you'd be foolish, do this."

It's like asking "How do I mix this shade of blue?" and everybody telling you just to use red. See my point? For those who have put rational thought into the answered the question I actually asked, THANK YOU. For those who just say use nitrous, sorry that's not the question I asked, so NO THANK YOU.

 

I may NEVER want to roast my tires, but I have the option. I know you're gonna find this hard to believe but you can build a car with monster power on tap and still have acceptable gas mileage.

A full tank of nitrous will can easily cost as much as a single tank of gas, be generous and say that you can fill up that 20 pound bottle for $10. It still doesn't come anywhere close to producing the same horsepower level for the same number of miles that a forced induction car could do. If I was to start with a full tank of gas and a full nitrous bottle I'd end up filling the nitrous bottle several times before I emptied the gas tank provided all I did was wide open throttle driving.

The "cost effectiveness" of nitrous REALLY starts to dwindle when you consider what it would take to have that much power on tap all the time.

As for that 500 HP car being un-streetable. I've got a suggestion for you, LET OFF THE GAS! Your right foot does control the amount of horsepower going to the pavement. Nitrous CANNOT instantly adapt to any horsepower demand. The fact of the matter is that it's either on or it's off, even with a progressive controller it's not ideally suited for a road course or a back country road. A supercharger builds more horsepower with more boost, which comes with more RPM. This means that it's a gradual power. It CAN roast the tires at will, but it doesn't HAVE to. Nitrous is much harder to control.

Just talked to a co-worker of mine who has nitrous on his 93 z-28. He has a 10 pound bottle. Retail price to fill that bottle is $35. He said that it will last him about 6 passes at the track. That's 3 miles. Assume for a momenet that a blower car only gets 1.5 MPG at WOT. That's 1.5 miles, nitrous costs you $35, PLUS however much gas you burn. The S/C car burns 1 gallon of gas which costs you $2.

Naturally it takes a long time to recover the initial purchase price of forced induction vs nitrous. Again you just have to ask yourself when you want the power. If you want the power all the time, nitrous is NOT a feasable answer, pure and simple.