Coolant PROBLEMS:Please advise...
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
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From: CALGARY ab
Coolant PROBLEMS:Please advise...
i have an 89- L98, currently no mods except for air pump eliminator, the other day i replaced the thermostat with same 192f... back flush system for about 20-25 minutes. drained and refilled with 50/50 distilled water...(up here it's "COLD")...run the engine to opt temp and burb it several times..
it been about week later.. had to fill it three times.. each time i open the cap...ther seemed to be an excess of air in system..and about 5-6 low...also ther seems to be black shiny gritty residue in newly replaced anti freeze..and the over flow tank is empty..there is no antifreeze in the oil
!
1...why is there a loss of coolant?... is not leaking from intake manifold and no leaks visable on frost plugs, nor heater core..no physical leaks on ground..
2.. is it possible that a head gasket has finally blown? what tests can i do to verify?
PS: merry Christmas to all
it been about week later.. had to fill it three times.. each time i open the cap...ther seemed to be an excess of air in system..and about 5-6 low...also ther seems to be black shiny gritty residue in newly replaced anti freeze..and the over flow tank is empty..there is no antifreeze in the oil
!1...why is there a loss of coolant?... is not leaking from intake manifold and no leaks visable on frost plugs, nor heater core..no physical leaks on ground..
2.. is it possible that a head gasket has finally blown? what tests can i do to verify?
PS: merry Christmas to all
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Are you sure you're getting all the air out of the system? What procedure are you using to "burp" the system?
You need to have the heater turned on to max heat and the blower on full. The stat has to be open too, meaning the coolant will have to be at least a constant 195 F.
To check for a head gasket leaking coolant, just get a pressure tester from AutoZone (it's a free loaner) and screw it onto the radiator in place of the cap. Pump it up to 20 psi and see if the gauge holds.
If it doesn't you've got to find out where the leak is occurring.
If it's leaking into one of the cylinders you may see white smoke out the tail pipe and/or one (or more) of the plugs will be white (steam cleaned).
Pull the PCV and see if there's any sign of white froth on it or around the oil baffle in the valve cover. If you're losing coolant it's got to be going somewhere.
Hope this helps.
Jake
You need to have the heater turned on to max heat and the blower on full. The stat has to be open too, meaning the coolant will have to be at least a constant 195 F.
To check for a head gasket leaking coolant, just get a pressure tester from AutoZone (it's a free loaner) and screw it onto the radiator in place of the cap. Pump it up to 20 psi and see if the gauge holds.
If it doesn't you've got to find out where the leak is occurring.
If it's leaking into one of the cylinders you may see white smoke out the tail pipe and/or one (or more) of the plugs will be white (steam cleaned).
Pull the PCV and see if there's any sign of white froth on it or around the oil baffle in the valve cover. If you're losing coolant it's got to be going somewhere.
Hope this helps.
Jake
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 0
From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by JAKE
Are you sure you're getting all the air out of the system? What procedure are you using to "burp" the system?
You need to have the heater turned on to max heat and the blower on full. The stat has to be open too, meaning the coolant will have to be at least a constant 195 F.
To check for a head gasket leaking coolant, just get a pressure tester from AutoZone (it's a free loaner) and screw it onto the radiator in place of the cap. Pump it up to 20 psi and see if the gauge holds.
If it doesn't you've got to find out where the leak is occurring.
If it's leaking into one of the cylinders you may see white smoke out the tail pipe and/or one (or more) of the plugs will be white (steam cleaned).
Pull the PCV and see if there's any sign of white froth on it or around the oil baffle in the valve cover. If you're losing coolant it's got to be going somewhere.
Hope this helps.
Jake
You need to have the heater turned on to max heat and the blower on full. The stat has to be open too, meaning the coolant will have to be at least a constant 195 F.
To check for a head gasket leaking coolant, just get a pressure tester from AutoZone (it's a free loaner) and screw it onto the radiator in place of the cap. Pump it up to 20 psi and see if the gauge holds.
If it doesn't you've got to find out where the leak is occurring.
If it's leaking into one of the cylinders you may see white smoke out the tail pipe and/or one (or more) of the plugs will be white (steam cleaned).
Pull the PCV and see if there's any sign of white froth on it or around the oil baffle in the valve cover. If you're losing coolant it's got to be going somewhere.
Hope this helps.
Jake
yes the unit was burbed, car slightly at a incline with heater set at full and operating at steady 195f.. did this several times. as i had to do this to the 87 more then once....
i get pressure tester and follow your recomendation tomorrow...
i will post results
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Did you bring the rpms up to about 2500 then, while holding it there, remove the radiator cap and, while still holding it there, top off the fluid level and replace the cap?
If you didn't just make sure you don't let the rpms drop while the cap is off or you'll get an unwelcome hot bath.
Use your left had to hold the TB lever and your right hand to work the cap and coolant bottle.
Let me know how it turns out.
Jake
If you didn't just make sure you don't let the rpms drop while the cap is off or you'll get an unwelcome hot bath.
Use your left had to hold the TB lever and your right hand to work the cap and coolant bottle.
Let me know how it turns out.
Jake
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by JAKE
Did you bring the rpms up to about 2500 then, while holding it there, remove the radiator cap and, while still holding it there, top off the fluid level and replace the cap?
If you didn't just make sure you don't let the rpms drop while the cap is off or you'll get an unwelcome hot bath.
Use your left had to hold the TB lever and your right hand to work the cap and coolant bottle.
Let me know how it turns out.
Jake
If you didn't just make sure you don't let the rpms drop while the cap is off or you'll get an unwelcome hot bath.
Use your left had to hold the TB lever and your right hand to work the cap and coolant bottle.
Let me know how it turns out.
Jake
thanks again.
PS;meanwhile dug out the chevy 4x4-1 ton dually for my trip to our auto zone store (canadian TIRE)..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 9
From: sonoma ca
Originally Posted by korvette4u
i have an 89- L98, currently no mods except for air pump eliminator, the other day i replaced the thermostat with same 192f... back flush system for about 20-25 minutes. drained and refilled with 50/50 distilled water...(up here it's "COLD")...run the engine to opt temp and burb it several times..
it been about week later.. had to fill it three times.. each time i open the cap...ther seemed to be an excess of air in system..and about 5-6 low...also ther seems to be black shiny gritty residue in newly replaced anti freeze..and the over flow tank is empty..there is no antifreeze in the oil!
1...why is there a loss of coolant?... is not leaking from intake manifold and no leaks visable on frost plugs, nor heater core..no physical leaks on ground..
2.. is it possible that a head gasket has finally blown? what tests can i do to verify?
PS: merry Christmas to all
it been about week later.. had to fill it three times.. each time i open the cap...ther seemed to be an excess of air in system..and about 5-6 low...also ther seems to be black shiny gritty residue in newly replaced anti freeze..and the over flow tank is empty..there is no antifreeze in the oil
!1...why is there a loss of coolant?... is not leaking from intake manifold and no leaks visable on frost plugs, nor heater core..no physical leaks on ground..
2.. is it possible that a head gasket has finally blown? what tests can i do to verify?
PS: merry Christmas to all
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 0
From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by Red Dwarf
Try topping off the recovery tank, that will help fill the system during "cool down".
. off the get testing equipment. your thought however is greatly appreciated...and i wish you and yours a very MERRY CHRISTMAS
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 9
From: sonoma ca
Originally Posted by korvette4u
thank you very much for the replies,, come to think of it, that was one of the first things i did, was to top off recovery tank. the coolant is going somewhere.. by dang i gonna find out where. . off the get testing equipment.
your thought however is greatly appreciated...and i wish you and yours a very MERRY CHRISTMAS
. off the get testing equipment. your thought however is greatly appreciated...and i wish you and yours a very MERRY CHRISTMAS
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Safety Car
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From: The Pines South Jersey
Best method for eliminating the air, I have found) when changing t-stat is to drill a couple small "bypass" holes in the new stat. The air will then go into the rad then eventually out through the overflow tank.
Bigger motors (ie:Cummins, Cat, Detroit) have capillary lines,that do just the same thing, and others had old style brass rad drain valves in the enginge coolant passages, the motors that didnt we could only do the drill method with great success.
Air stuck in the coolant passages of the block generally get stuck to the hottest part and that would be the jacket by the cylinder walls, and with alum pistons/steel sleeves its a recipe for disaster.
Bigger motors (ie:Cummins, Cat, Detroit) have capillary lines,that do just the same thing, and others had old style brass rad drain valves in the enginge coolant passages, the motors that didnt we could only do the drill method with great success.
Air stuck in the coolant passages of the block generally get stuck to the hottest part and that would be the jacket by the cylinder walls, and with alum pistons/steel sleeves its a recipe for disaster.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 0
From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by jd_v3tt3
Best method for eliminating the air, I have found) when changing t-stat is to drill a couple small "bypass" holes in the new stat. The air will then go into the rad then eventually out through the overflow tank.
Bigger motors (ie:Cummins, Cat, Detroit) have capillary lines,that do just the same thing, and others had old style brass rad drain valves in the enginge coolant passages, the motors that didnt we could only do the drill method with great success.
Air stuck in the coolant passages of the block generally get stuck to the hottest part and that would be the jacket by the cylinder walls, and with alum pistons/steel sleeves its a recipe for disaster.
Bigger motors (ie:Cummins, Cat, Detroit) have capillary lines,that do just the same thing, and others had old style brass rad drain valves in the enginge coolant passages, the motors that didnt we could only do the drill method with great success.
Air stuck in the coolant passages of the block generally get stuck to the hottest part and that would be the jacket by the cylinder walls, and with alum pistons/steel sleeves its a recipe for disaster.
i read that in one of the threads and drilled a 3/32th hole into a new thermostat, befor install..(on both vettes) ..this method works
..but that is not the reason coolant is disappearing.. i have yet to do pressure test, spark plug visual&/compression test.. seems like, a little spiced egg nogg, with Santa's helpers got in the way 
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
yesterday i went to Auto pro to get pressure tester..of course they didnt have one...So off to heavy duty equipment repair shop a buddy of mine owns. he suggested to use a die that is reacts with carbon dioxide/monoxide.. to use this, draw off some coolant after a complete warm up, add this blue die to the sample jar, if it changes color to yellow.. your hoopt.... this means that there is a leak from combustion to coolant, you can suspect cracked heads, cracked block, blown gasket...most likely Blown gasket..i hope..
seening that it christmas i have yet to do this
merry christmas to one and all.. hope santa brought you what ya wanted..
seening that it christmas i have yet to do this
merry christmas to one and all.. hope santa brought you what ya wanted..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
There's usually more than one way to skin a cat, so there are other methods of detecting a coolant leak. But (isn't there always a "but") the easiest/cheapest way is to get one from AutoZone. AUTOZONE is the place where most of us got the tester, inlcuding me. It rents for free. They also have an assortment of other speciality tools that rent for free too.
Of course, you can buy one from most of the larger auto parts stores, like Pep Boys, etc., but why buy one when you'll probably only need to use one once.
My advice" Don't over-engineer the problem, as many tend to do. No need to go high-tech just to find a coolant leak. K.I.S.S.
Just my thoughts.
Jake
Of course, you can buy one from most of the larger auto parts stores, like Pep Boys, etc., but why buy one when you'll probably only need to use one once.
My advice" Don't over-engineer the problem, as many tend to do. No need to go high-tech just to find a coolant leak. K.I.S.S.
Just my thoughts.
Jake
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 0
From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by JAKE
There's usually more than one way to skin a cat, so there are other methods of detecting a coolant leak. But (isn't there always a "but") the easiest/cheapest way is to get one from AutoZone. AUTOZONE is the place where most of us got the tester, inlcuding me. It rents for free. They also have an assortment of other speciality tools that rent for free too.
Of course, you can buy one from most of the larger auto parts stores, like Pep Boys, etc., but why buy one when you'll probably only need to use one once.
My advice" Don't over-engineer the problem, as many tend to do. No need to go high-tech just to find a coolant leak. K.I.S.S.
Just my thoughts.
Jake
Of course, you can buy one from most of the larger auto parts stores, like Pep Boys, etc., but why buy one when you'll probably only need to use one once.
My advice" Don't over-engineer the problem, as many tend to do. No need to go high-tech just to find a coolant leak. K.I.S.S.
Just my thoughts.
Jake
in my opion, pressure testing the system will tell you if you have a leak.
The Block Check is A positive solution to gasket failure ( if there is one)where by it detects combustion gases and can be used to pin point which bank has failed...
merry xmas
Last edited by korvette4u; Dec 25, 2004 at 09:09 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 12
I have an 89 too. My car isn't leaking coolant nor running it thru the cylinders but my stupid little light always seems to find a way to come on. Everytime I pop the cap it's right up to the top but when you run it it finds an air pocket to drop the level. I have tried every stupid trick under the sun to get that damn thing filled but there is always one air pocket I can't get rid of. I would just like to thank the injineer that designed the radiator cap to not be the highest point in the system. 
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: CALGARY ab
ok ...heres what happened witht the 2 test i performed,
1...pressure tested coolant system... pressure drop almost immediately. now where's the leak...i pulled plugs 5 and 7 .. yuppers they seem to be white...1 & 3 brown color (good)...
2..run engine with 5&7 out...did block test with "Unversal Block Testing kit"...fluild remained Blue...insert plugs and redid test.. the blue fliuld turned yellow, (man this is simple)..conclusion "HEAD GASKET" failure..between 5&7...Dah!
some good things.. no coolant in oil..no white slug on pvc valve...
the repair: remove heads, have them checked...mangaflux block (i may use die penatrate)..well at least where it can be done(the sealing surfaces)...reassemble..estimate time for R/R approxiamately 16 hours..also while it apart removal of the entire EGR system..
total cost ?? ...upper head gasket set felpro # HS7733-PT-9..VIN code -8. some new oil and Antifreeze..cost of beverage Extra
1...pressure tested coolant system... pressure drop almost immediately. now where's the leak...i pulled plugs 5 and 7 .. yuppers they seem to be white...1 & 3 brown color (good)...
2..run engine with 5&7 out...did block test with "Unversal Block Testing kit"...fluild remained Blue...insert plugs and redid test.. the blue fliuld turned yellow, (man this is simple)..conclusion "HEAD GASKET" failure..between 5&7...Dah!
some good things.. no coolant in oil..no white slug on pvc valve...
the repair: remove heads, have them checked...mangaflux block (i may use die penatrate)..well at least where it can be done(the sealing surfaces)...reassemble..estimate time for R/R approxiamately 16 hours..also while it apart removal of the entire EGR system..
total cost ?? ...upper head gasket set felpro # HS7733-PT-9..VIN code -8. some new oil and Antifreeze..cost of beverage Extra
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 0
From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by JAKE
I'd recommend Fel Pro 10 series head gaskets rather than the 7733s. The 10 series are a better gasket and there are several to choose from.
Jake
Jake
HEAD BOLTS & INTAKE MANIFOLD GASKETS FOR TPI CAMARO NOT INCLUDED
$69.88 $16.01 FPP-1010 head gasket is included in this kit
jake seem like the series 10 is for complete rebuild .... i will look into it.. however this 7733-p9 is the set that is reccommended and contains the upgraded head gasket... correct me if i should be wrong..becuz it is verrry interesting...Btw i used p9's(full set) in my 87 when i had to rebuild after nos blow out...
Last edited by korvette4u; Dec 28, 2004 at 12:12 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Here's what I came up with in the 10 series head gaskets:
1003 : for cast iron or aluminum heads; max bore 4.155, no steam holes, steel core laminate, pre-flattened steel wire, minimal aluminum head brinneling, use on iron block only, gasket bore 4.166, .041 thickness, combustion volume 9.1cc
1004: same as above but has 4.190 gasket bore and is 9.2 cc and can be used on aluminum or iron block
1010: For aluminum heads only, recommended for 86-91 aluminum head Vette,, pre-flattened copper wire, no brinneling, 4.166 gasket bore, .039 thickness, 8.9ccs
1014: has steam holes (for 400 block) and a 4.200 gasket bore, .039 thickness, 9.0 ccs
1044: is extra thick (.051) and has steam holes
1094 is extra thin (.015), no steam holes and a 4.100 gasket bore
They run around $30 each. I recommend you use a premium head gasket rather than a stock-rebuild type. No sense in having to go through the replacement process again down the line.
There a few others, but they're for specialized purposes.
Hope this helps.
Jake
1003 : for cast iron or aluminum heads; max bore 4.155, no steam holes, steel core laminate, pre-flattened steel wire, minimal aluminum head brinneling, use on iron block only, gasket bore 4.166, .041 thickness, combustion volume 9.1cc
1004: same as above but has 4.190 gasket bore and is 9.2 cc and can be used on aluminum or iron block
1010: For aluminum heads only, recommended for 86-91 aluminum head Vette,, pre-flattened copper wire, no brinneling, 4.166 gasket bore, .039 thickness, 8.9ccs
1014: has steam holes (for 400 block) and a 4.200 gasket bore, .039 thickness, 9.0 ccs
1044: is extra thick (.051) and has steam holes
1094 is extra thin (.015), no steam holes and a 4.100 gasket bore
They run around $30 each. I recommend you use a premium head gasket rather than a stock-rebuild type. No sense in having to go through the replacement process again down the line.
There a few others, but they're for specialized purposes.
Hope this helps.
Jake
Last edited by JAKE; Dec 30, 2004 at 04:17 AM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
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From: CALGARY ab
Originally Posted by JAKE
1010: For aluminum heads only, recommended for 86-91 aluminum head Vette,, pre-flattened copper wire, no brinneling, 4.166 gasket bore, .039 thickness, 8.9ccs
They run around $30 each. I recommend you use a premium head gasket rather than a stock-rebuild type. No sense in having to go through the replacement process again down the line.
There a few others, but they're for specialized purposes.
Hope this helps.
Jake
with you completely. i did phone Prostock engine rebuilders in edmonton..thier reply ...the valve grind kit which is gasket set (special order for vettes only) HS 7733-PT-9, used specifically for 86-91, 350ci with TPI. with aluminium heads..has upgraded head gaskets similiar to Felpro 1010..this head gasket has same info as dicussed but instead of copper it is stainless steel flatten ring. (used in mild race application)"Some Felpro gaskets set have been upgraded and do not use OEM syle replacements"..is what i was told. I have used this kit before and didnt know the difference...one of the other threads, there is a member that had bought HS-7733-PT-15 kit..now this kit is for TBI and can be used also. but u must buy the runner gaskets extra..
i couldnt agree with you more, dont want to do this agian...PS: starting tear down next week..have to finish mini chopper project first..painting left...Minichopper Project
Happy New Year and best wishes