When I think of all the posts I've seen of people appreciative of his help and work done for them, this rather floors me. I guess no matter what you do, at some point you're bound to leave someone feeling lacking or unsatisfied in some way. You can't please everybody, as it were. But I feel sure that perhaps all that's needed here is some communication sans attitudes, in private, and hopefully come to an understanding. Come on guys, you're both sharp fellows, I know.

 

Private communications were established, but all I received was a "I have a strict no-refund policy" that was never disclosed either through the sales pitch or his web site.

I'm not disputing the help ski has given fellow forum members, but I spent almost $700.00 on a tune that I could not use.

If this is the only way to get my money back for a product I cannot use through a "professional tuner", then the challenge is the only means I have left to recoup some of my losses.

 

Boy, I hate to see this happen. The minute you accept payment for a service you are dubbed a "professional". The next step is the hero or zero philosophy. I see it all the time with engine builders, transmission guys and now prom burners. Hope everybody hammers it out. Jesse's chips don't seem to be the answer to everyones goals but he sure seems to have many grateful customers w/ wicked fast cars.

 

Well I can't and won't dispute your word or his, being only an observer. But I hope, whether here or in private that an amicable agreement can be reached.

 

You and I both brother - I have a $260.00 useless chip sitting on my garage shelf...

 

How do you like the ed wright chip? I have heard alot of good things about him. I have considered using him as well.

 

And you're a noob who doesn't have a $260.00 useless chip sitting on his garage shelf.

 

Pete - my "pig-rich" problem went away, the car no longer shook at idle, I didn't have to change the oil every 500 miles in order to not wash the cylinder walls down and the car definitely has more power.

When I talked to the tech who programmed the chip at Ed Wright, he told me "the tune went just fine, this is a very common setup and we encountered no problems."

I'd highly recommend them.

 

Thanks for the reply. Have heard only 1 bad crack locally about Ed Wright. Many more positives for sure. I may try him.

 

I just put an Ed Wright custom chip in my 92 A4 LT1 with a Hotcam and 1.6 RR's. I'm very pleased with the smoothness of idle and low/mid throttle, as well as the excellent response at WOT. Of course, the proof is in the Dyno testing. And the track.

 

I am going to try to make this short and to the point.

Let me first remind you of the email you most recently sent me, which included this:

"- The car was throwing a code 26. While not known beforehand, this could have been programmed out the chip by you. This was no fault of yours, as I didn't know the computer would throw this code with a missing AIR system."

Also anyone that knows how these ECM work, knows there had to be something else wrong, because the ECM should NEVER just dump fuel into the system - its a closed loop system meaning the ECM would immediately trim the fuel back. So I knew something was wrong - most likely now after seeing you had a code 26, it was in limp home mode and never reaching closed loop. Hence the fuel.

How can I be responsible when needed information is not supplied to me? When I do these chips I have to assume the information I am getting is exactly what I am tuning and other items are working properly in the car. I can't count how many times I have someone get a tune, they say the car is running this or that way and after either 2-3 phone calls, or emails having them check different items they learn that an 02 sensor is not working or their tranny guy forgot to plug in the VSS sensor etc. And majically then the car runs like a raped ape.

This happens all the time, and one of the many things I try to help guys out with after the fact of the tuning that I assure you will NOT get many other places.

In addition, I also offer to redo the chips as many times as you like, even after years and someone might change something. I do all that for FREE. The initial charge I charge is pretty minimal and is NOT intended to be a money maker - it simply offset of the TONS of time it takes me to do these tunes and help people through other problems they normally would get ZERO help with.

At the end of the day, its pretty simple. I got into tuning others chips by doing two guys chips on the forum, which I initially did for free, when they got the tunes and gained both considerable ETs(after each spending 1K dollars other places on tunes), they both insisted on me accepting some money. I told them forget it, I enjoyed the conversation and being able to help. They still insisted, and said they were sending me something. IT was 250 dollars. They told other friends and it continued. For every other tune I have kept it the SAME.

You have to realize one things. I DO not do these tunes as a benefit for my personal Income - sit with me a few evenings till late after my real job calculating and formulating a tune. Running around trying to mail them from this very desolate area I live in, which consumes an ENTIRE lunch break - throw in there answering 10 emails on average a day, most not even tuning related (answered about 6 today, on Christmas about headers, heads and sparkplugs just to name a few) and ask yourself then if its worth 250 dollars.

The absolute ONLY reason I charge anything is MOST people don't want something for nothing and second it keeps the MASSES at bay,and ultimately me from getting overwhelmed and just saying its too much work. That would leave the people that TRUELY do appreciate the time and extra effort I put into the tunes the people that would get hurt, and lleave them going to someone else that charges 2x as much, and isn't going to spend the needed time when there is a problem. There are MANY people on this forum that have greatly benefitted from me tuning chips and I truely LOVE helping them out. Read the end of this recent post - and I think it explains all:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=948620

So realize its not me your hurting by trying to conjure up some trouble here. I offered to help you in any way possible with your tune and to do anything it took to get you running the way you wanted. You chose to move onto someone else before we gave anything further investigation and before learning that your code 26 was coming up. Had you not given the next guy the needed information, then you would have had the same results most likely from his tune.

I appologize that you were unhappy and wish we could have fixed it like so many others turn out. I truely do enjoy helping people out on this forum and that share the same great passion with these cars as I do. Anyone that knows me in person knows where I am coming from. Hell I spent over 2 hours one night on the phone with Dave (hooked up trying to figure out the next best thing for him).

In the end, if you wish for this to turn out with me having enough - and not doing any more tunes for anyone else - realize two things. 1. The others here that do find me helpful will be the only ones hurt, and 2. My wife with me elated to see that I am not infont of this computer all night long

Again, my best wishes to you and yours during this Holiday Season.

 

yeah, i have spent well over $1200 in custom chips. that's why I went DFI. I will never look back.

 

[QUOTE=cprgmr]Spoken like a true lemming. We'll see if you change your tune (no pun intended) when your car is running pig rich and is 2-3 tenths and 2-3 miles per hour slower than it could be in the quarter.

Unless you have practical experience with a tune from ski, let's try and keep the hype down to a minimum please. Thank you. (QUOTE) Ha CPRGMR, I see why your all disgruntled. Your only running 12.6 with all those mods with a ED W. tune. Sorry to hear that. Your manners on this thread , well ,what can I say , You got real class dude! Get a life

 

You are one patient man. Well done and Happy Holidays.

 

I stand by this portion of our last email conversation. However, there seems to be some "selective" copy and paste operations at work. Here is the portion of the email you left out...

Sorry for not getting back to you right away, I've been gone for a few days on business. I appreciate your professionalism regarding this matter, but I have some things that need to be pointed out, and I think we can come to a reasonable accord.

As you recall from my last series of emails, here are the things that were wrong with the chip:

- Car would not idle well at all, it died until warmed up at least 5 minutes. I had trouble keeping the car running at stop signs (it kept wanting to stall). Your solution was to manipulate the throttle blades which should not have to be done.

- Car was running extremely rich - I could smell gas in the exhaust from in the house when the car warm enough to idle in the driveway. I went through two oil changes within 100 miles of each other and both changes indicated gas in the oil. As a matter of fact, when I changed the oil, it was thick with the stench of gasoline. I was concerned that the gas presence in the oil would wash down the cylinder walls and compromise the internal components and operations of the engine.

- The car was throwing a code 26. While not known beforehand, this could have been programmed out the chip by you. This was no fault of yours, as I didn't know the computer would throw this code with a missing AIR system.

I can understand the logic in your policy of not providing refunds. However, I'm not interested in copying the chip as I don't want to spend $1000.00 or so to obtain the programming equipment in order to do so. Furthermore, even if I could obtain the program, I wouldn't give this tune away as it stands.

Being the business owner, I believe that you can make exceptions to your refund policy in order to keep customers happy. In short, you provided me with a product that didn't work, I have no user for, and I want a refund. There was no disclosure by either you during your sales pitch or your website (which I have screen shots from) that you didn't provide a refund for your product.

In the final analysis, I have a useless chip and I'm out $260.00. Not to mention the fact that my original Ed Wright program was erased and I have no means of putting that program back on to the original PROM ($160.00). I've spent well over $600.00 for a program that I can actually use and I haven't even had the car on a dyno.

Thanks for your attention to this matter and I hope to hear from you soon.



According to my GM service manual, a code 26 is set "if the ECM detects the wrong voltage potential for 20 seconds. This test will begin to determine if the QDM connected to the AIR pump can be controlled by the ECM. If the relay appears to operate but the AIR pump does not turn on, refer to "Secondary Air Injection System," Section "6E3-C6" for further AIR diagnosis".

Since the AIR system does nothing more than heat up the catalytic converters to provide better emissions standards, I seriously doubt the car would go into "limp home mode". I ran a 12.6 at almost 110 miles per hour in "limp home mode". Common sense should dictate that the car would not provide these performance numbers in this mode.

I supplied you the exact same information as I did to Ed Wright. The only thing that was different was the elimination of the code 26.

Look, $250.00 may not seem like a great deal of money to you, but I don't look at it as chump change. When you got the order for my tune, you also had 8 other orders show up that week. Doing some simple math, $250.00 * 8 = $2,000.00. That's not too bad for one weeks worth of work on the side. Not to beleaguer the point, but I think its silly to try and convince a rational person that you don't burn chips for monetary compensation.

I realize that you provide help for many other forum members. You are very professional in your demeanor and that's a lot more than I can say for some others around here. However, the fact that you're a swell guy to many other forum members is not what is at issue here.

I want you to realize something. I'm not engaging in dialogue to "hurt" anyone or "conjure up trouble". I can't believe that somehow, the tables have turned to make me look like a "bad guy"! I'm the customer who purchased your product and am dissatisfied. My car was down during prime driving weather and I needed to get the darn thing running. After seeing the condition and behavior the car was exhibiting, I didn't feel safe running your chip.

Once again, the only thing I'm interested in is getting my money back for a product that did not work and one in which I feel could seriously damage or compromise my engine. I'm standing up for my rights as a consumer and I refuse to be bullied out of $250.00. I'm taking your advice actually. Please reference the following thread http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...=966090&page=2 (5 posts down).


For the others here who fail to see what has transpired, let me draw an analogy...

Suppose you just spent $5,000.00 on a new home theater system. You know the ones, they have the nice LCD widescreen display with surround sound speakers and a kick-butt receiver.
Now, you could just turn it on and listen, but you want the best for your system and you decide to have someone come to your house and "professionally" set it up for you. The charge? You got it - $250.00.

Now knowing that you've heard many great things about the guy doing the setup, you decide to go ahead and set up an appointment. The setup goes as scheduled and you turn on the system after you've cut the check and the installer has gone on his merry way.

Whoa! Something is really wrong with your components! Your speakers are squealing and the LCD TV has all kinds of wavy lines in it! You think to yourself "man, this isn't right". "I wonder if I'm doing damage to my system by leaving everything turned on?". You decide to err on the side of caution and turn everything off. Thinking about if for a while, you know that you better get this thing working because a bunch of your friends are coming over and you want to use the darn thing.

With your confidence shaken due to your experience with the first setup, you reluctantly decide to call a different installer who is also well known and highly recommended. This guy charges you $100.00 more than what you paid the first guy, but when you turn your system on, it's breathtaking. The sound is crisp and clear and the display on your TV is nothing short of awe-inspiring.

Thinking about what happened, you decide that the first installer really didn't do the job quite well enough. You weren't supplied with a quality product, and you feel that since you're out of $250.00 for something that you didn't trust using, you decide to ask for a refund.

"I have a strict no-refund policy" is the answer that you get. "What!?!?" "Wait a minute!" "You never told me that there was a strict no refund policy and I paid you for something that I can't use because it might damage my system!"

"Sorry, it's your fault that you didn't provide me with the amperage for your sub-woofer". "Since you already moved on and went with a different installer, there's nothing I can do for you." "Furthermore, the only thing you're going to accomplish is that you'll hurt many of my future customers, because I really don't do these setups to make money, I do it because I truly love helping people".

Does this make sense? I'm so exasperated!

 

Rob.

What your failing to see with the whole analogy above is the guy was FULLY willing to fix the problem, and was NEVER given the opportunity to do so.

Fully willing when the initial tune done on bad information. That means more of MY time correcting your misinformation. I can assure you if you failed to tell the installer of your theater in the above scenerio the right room to install it in, and he did it in the wrong room per your instructions you would be paying the 250 again. The only difference in this situation was I was MORE THAN WILLING to devote more time into correcting the situation for you when it wasn't my mistake in the first place.

I was out of town fighting with GM on my "real" job and you decided on your own free will to contract another to do the tune. I was very disappointed that we did not simply work through the issue and MORESO that you had to spend more money when I could have simply corrected the issue.

As for the refund policy, I try to find the best in EVERYONE and try to not think people would take advantage of my time and efforts, but I am not nieve either. NOT SAYING YOU WOULD DO THIS. But I simply explained to you how easy it would be for someone to have me do a tune, copy the tune and say it did not work and program it onto another chip. Again I would like to believe that it would never happen, but I and you know eventually it would. again not saying you would, just generalizing. This policy is not uncommon in nearly every electonics application. And I assure you would not get anywhere with other people tuner in the same situation.

Again, this is very troublesome for me to see you pissed. I am not trying to point the finger of blame at you, and hope you can see that. I am only trying to make sense out of a situation I was not in control of but was willing to make RIGHT with a retune.

Your setup was NOT that exotic and I have done MANY that are much more involved. I knew there was something else the matter that we needed to get to the bottom of. As I explained before, the ECM even if the tune was off a little should have trimmed it. What you explained was gross fuel poring into the cylinders. This is not somehting that happens when a tune is slighly off. Something else is the matter.

In reference to your 8 tunes that week...Most of them were re-tunes. Which were for people that changed something and I was doing it for FREE. If I was making a killing on these tunes. I certainly would not be selling components from my car in other threads that I am probably going to regret getting rid of if my car slows down. ie, my cam and tranny.

Again I particularly don't like having to go on the defensive for something I really should not be resposible for in the first place, and moreso that I was willing to glady step up to the plate and redo the tune again. I am truely sorry you feel the way you do about the situation.

 

Alright. I really don't get pissed that easily (you didn't see any cuss or mad emoticons did you? ) I'm just trying to make a point based on how I see things.

If I send you back the chip and pay shipping both ways, can you provide me a better tune than what I'm running now?

If not, what happens then?

 

z - what DFI system did you go with? I'd be interested in hearing your tuning adventures considering you're running a much more radical setup than I am.

 

CPRGMR,,,,Its not just you, I just think long distance tuning is a hit and miss thing, for some it works, but for me it didnt, but I learned from the experience. I repsect anyones ability to tune these cars, as SKI told me, one little thing can upset the whole balance and I agree.

But, I cant overstate how extremely thankfull I am that Ol'RJ is local and was willing to spend time helping me out, without him my car I would have been lost.

I really hope you get it sorted out.

 

Thanks for the encouragement bud. My best run with ski's chip was a 12.6 at almost 110 mph. If that was with the car running on limp-home-mode, I can just imagine what he can do with a perfect tune.

I think in order to get the most from the mods, I'll have to get this thing tuned on a dyno and there goes another $500.00 +.

For everyone out there who wants to do heads and cam, just keep this in mind... All the parts in the world won't make you faster unless you have a properly tuned computer.