cprgmr,

Just to be fair, you should look at this from the other side of the fence.... your analogy of the stereo set-up man is not quite the same, in this instance you made a decision to have a person perform a service for you that involves time with the full understanding that it is common to have to retune the chip multiple times to get the set-up just right.... if the set-up isn't just right... right away, you needed to keep working with Ski. You must have realized that based upon other customers expressing their satisfaction that he could have gotten it right for you, if not right away, but eventually. Did he know of a proposed time limit ?

In this case you made a choice to hire him to spend his time to create a chip for you.... this is a purchased service, not a product that he can buy back from you and put back on the shelf.... it is time spent, yet, "you" bailed on him before giving him all of the opportunities to sort out your set-up. The stereo man is given one shot to come in and set-up your system on-site with the product in his hands.... its quite a bit different than your purchasing decision with Ski.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on you... I know how you feel, these things can be tough, and I hope nobody feels you're the bad guy somehow. I'm also not defending Ski, he's a big boy and can take care of himself... I'm just trying to point out the differences.

On another note, it is common to have to make slight idle screw adjustments after major modifications. What led you to believe it isn't ? I'm not talking about turning the screw 10 times so that the blades are constantly hung open, but slight 1 turn hits are commonplace and a simple 1 turn or even 1/2 turn of the idle screw just might have solved your idle problems. This is why GM has a screw their that anybody can adjust.

I don't know what was wrong with your pig rich situation, I could theorize many things, but I'll spare the keyboard diagnostics. But, there is a good chance he could have fixed it.... but maybe now, you'll never know.

One last thing, I know you mentioned you ran 12.6 @ 110 mph in limp home mode.... but boy, I've been in limp home mode in my 85, and I'll tell you, I don't think a 16 second et would be possible... maybe 93's are different, I dunno, but hard to believe that is the case. As a note, a friend I used to race with back west had a C4 LT-1, 350 with an aggressive hyd roller cam, ported heads, 3.73 gears, 2600 rpm Vig converter, headers, drag radials.... he ran 12.7 @ 110 mph consistently on a 800 ft track in a DA of 2500 ft. Point being, for your first time out with a new set-up.... your 12.6 @ 110 isn't bad.... I'll bet you could have slowly widdled that down after some time. If you're looking for a better et, I'd recommend doing some of the little things like front skinnies, finding a little weight you can get rid of and I'll bet you could easily get yourself down to the low 12's before you hit the button. And if sent back your Vig to PI for an adjustment of another 400-800 rpm of stall, you'd probably pick-up 2 tenths with just that change... in fact when you add up some additional optimizing you can do on your set-up, you can get yourself into the 11's as others have.... but nobody goes out their first time and runs great et's..... unfortunately, its just the way it is.

In any regards... good luck to both of you on what ever you decide.

cheers,
Beach Bum

 

Unless you have done business with everyone of the forum vendors, how can you make that statement?
I've followed this little pissing match very intently. I have one of Jesse's chips, and no it's not quite right, but I will give Jesse multiple retunes to get it right. Its still cheaper than Ed W's 350$ custom tune, even if I send it back 3 times.
The above quote tells me no matter what Jesse does, you will not be happy.

 

???

 

Ben,

I don't quite understand your whole statement above.... what you're saying is that chip tuning is easy.... but yet, if somebody has been doing it for 2 years, they don't know how..... Which is it ? Hard and takes many, many years to learn how to tune or is it easy ???

As a note, exactly how much time does it take to become a chip tuner ? Maybe 3 years, 5 years.... maybe its 10 years ? Maybe you need a bachelors degree in chip tuning ? Or maybe you just need to take chip tuning 101 at the local community college ? I don't know the answers to these questions.... but I do know that a guy like Shalin who used to do chips on this forum began just like anybody.... he had a 10 second supercharged LT-1, he went out and bought the chip tuning package and just started learning how by asking questions, being a good listener and trial and error on his own set-up, within a few short years of doing this, he was doing chips for others successfully.... absolutely zero difference than what Ski has been doing.

Bowtye8 was the same on the forum, he learned how.... and literally within 4-5 months after he started he was doing chips for his brother, friends, "me", ..... once again, very similar to what Ski is doing.

LT401vette is another guy, he had a 10 second C4.... he bought the stuff and just started figuring out how to do it... within a year he was doing chips for family, friends and others..... all of the above people did many chips successfully, and they were making chips for others in literally less than "1 year" from the time they figured out how to do it........ it seems 2 years just might be an adequate time to help people with chips as Ski has been doing.

I'm not sure what the expert comment is about... maybe it bothered you a magazine article called him an expert.... but as far as I know, he has never called himself an expert. If you have issues with the magazine calling him an expert, you might want to create a letter to the editor.

cheers,
Beach Bum

 

Blown vette - The many, many posts of very happy people speak for themselves.

I have come up against your assinine attacks before, and to say the least - grow-up.

Asking questions is something EVERYONE needs to do at times. If your going to link to that post, link to the all the 100s of others that I called BS on 90% of the TGO's thoughts on tuning and other mis-communicates they were spilling. For example: MAF only able to support 350hp, 24# injectors too small, SD having Superior ability over MAF. The last one is totally laughable, when you go back to there today and see they now see what I was saying before, and the SD still has the same limits as the MAF with 255g/sec. And they can't figure out how to get the pulse widths on larger motors to fire correctly. Hmmmm what size motor are corky and I running? With both MAF and SD systems running equal? Bottom 10s with both systems running EVERYTHING they said we couldn't speaks volumes as to who truely knows that is going on. Or are our cars suppose to run 8s, and as I mentioned before, I just have a crappy tune on them and that is the reason they only run bottom 10s.

And lets not forget jims 383 = 11.2@121, Hooked ups 10.03@133 with 1.29 60' times, Corkys 10.2@132, Ralphs 11.0X ETs, and MANY MANY others. None of these cars I ever did in person with the tunes.

Never claimed to be an expert - just someone that talks with real results to back up their thoughts.

As I said before, I am not here to defend my position as a tuner or anything else. I am here to help the people that want help with tuning and the many other items I lend a hand with. I don't bend anyone's arm to come to me for help. As Beach said, we are all big boys and girls and should be able to make our own decisions. And as big boys and girls we should be able to see who is truely trying to help and who is trying to stir the waters.

 

If you have good knowledge/experience with performance engines, it does not take a long time to be good at tuning via chip.

The real issues are...does the tuner get results, are their prices reasonable, and will they spend the time to work with you.

Doing a chip right takes lots of time. Anyone who expects plug and play results would be better served by getting the total engine/matched tuning package from someone like LPE.

 

 

cprgmr VS ski ...
i can see the only way to settle this is from a stoplight.


why not re-tune his chip and give it back to him, ski? even if it is the exact same as the one he has, he could go sell one of them and maybe get a few bucks back out of this mess, and maybe he won't be so hostile... bad word of mouth is not good for business

whatever goes down.... TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. this thread has lost it's direction and needs to be killed

 

Beach - thanks for the independent and objective analysis. In the end, I guess I'm just going to have to take the loss and chalk it up to experience.

I wish I would've taken a video of how bad my idle situation was. I had to basically sit in the car for at least 5 minutes while feathering the throttle just to keep it running. Once it was warm, the entire car shook back and forth. It died at several stop signs - utterly embarrassing.

I was at the local speed shop picking up some stuff and one of their mechanics said "Man, your car sure doesn't like that cam does it?". I knew that the car needed more than a simple adjustment of the idle screw.

Once I put the fastchip in, the idle smoothed out and now you can't even tell the car has a fairly aggressive cam in it. This confirmed my suspicions about the chip being the culprit.

Yes, I think he probably could've fixed it given enough time. However, I probably would have had to drive to PA or pay for his round-trip plane ticket to my place. When I did the heads/cam upgrade, I replaced just about every sensor (including the 2 O2 sensors), so I know that I didn't have faulty components.

The car is now not "pig-rich", so I once again, know that the tune was way off.

My point exactly. The explanation for not giving me a refund was that I didn't disclose a code 26 (slow response from AIR system) and therefore, it was my fault for the tune not being right. I found it highly improbable that the car was in "limp-home-mode" due to the 12.6 @110.00.

Thank you for the encouragement. I know that my 12.6 @110.00 was not the best this car can do. I also know that there are some "driving issues" that have to be corrected in order to fully maximize my ET.

I now realize that I will not receive any of my money back. I guess I can take solace in the fact that if I've helped at least one forum member through the posts in this thread to not make the same mistake I did, I'm content (as content as one can be for getting taken for $260.00 - that kind of hurts in the rectal area).

 

Like many of the guys mentioned in this quote, I am also running aftermarket EFI on my setup and love it. I'm running FAST B2B and the tuning is very simple with this setup and so far has been quite effective.

One thing to note, this thread is based on a $250 loss. You do realize that the aftermarket setup is easily going to cost you 10x that much when all is said and done (regardless of which ECU you use). Be aware of that as its rewards are great, but the investment is sizeable.

Ron

 

I also have never had any luck with mail order chips. I went thru a total of 25-30 different chips from Ed Wright, Formato, and AS&M, and nobody could get my first 421 combo to run right. I Finally bought a FAST system with a wideband, did my own tuning, and picked up 6 tenths and 6 mph. Now anytime I change my engine combo, I can retune it myself. A FAST/DFI/BS3 system is quite a bit of money, but I think they are well worth it, especially if you like to continually change your engine combo around.

Some guys have had good luck with mailorder chips...but I haven't.

 

BY all means, start your own business burning chips I recommend. May all your buyers be just like you. Let us know how it goes.

 

jimbomill - I have no axe to grind with you. However, you seem to be on the offensive here. I think the discussion has run its course and all points have been made. Let's just let this go shall we?

And if you're so righteous, take $260.00 out of your next paycheck and mail it to me. I'm more than willing to hold it for you indefinitely.

 

You are a clueless. After that last post, I now find you loathesome and far too fixated on having someone else addressing your errors.
Do not lie to me by saying you have no axe to grind and then piling on the BS about my giving you $260 and sending it to you. You do not need a chip for your Vette, you need a trip to a shrink. Stick the righteous comment up your .... indefinitely.

 

Wow, after reading all of this, I'm glad I do my own tuning.

 

Here we go...

It's painfully apparent that I struck a nerve here. For being an engineer, you sure are dumb...

Since when was this post about you? Who the f**k do you think you are? Why do you feel that you have to step in to a discussion that you have no experience in and take a side?

What don't you understand about "I think the discussion has run its course and all points have been made. Let's just let this go shall we?"

If you can't catch a clue, how does STFU sound to you? If you're so hell-bent on sticking up for ski (and I'm sure you read the post earlier that stated that he's a big boy and can stick up for himself), why don't you go into business with him?

I'm sure with your superior intellectual capabities and your ability to empathize with the customers standpoint, you'll go very far with not only your new business, but with customer retention as well.

For being a member since November of 2001 and only having 647 posts, I'm sure that your contribution to this thread outweighs all of your superior advice and tech tips you've contributed to this forum.

Let's see... How else can I say this? If you have a problem with me, take it to email. Since you seem technically challenged, you can find my email by viewing my public profile and following the hyperlink to my email address.

You are on the verge of crossing the line of "civility" that the moderators try to enforce here.

I don't know what your problem is, but I can guaran-goddamn-tee you that you wouldn't be saying your aforementioned BS to my face. In case you're hard of hearing, IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME, TAKE IT TO EMAIL!

Geez, I really don't like to shout, but sometimes it just has to be done.

Can a moderator please step in and lock this thread so these fools stop posting this nonsense?

 

Hi Mike - yeah, I'm headed down that path myself. Seems that you can't rely on anyone to provide a quality product these days...

Stay in touch, I'm eager to see if you "upgrade" to a healthier cam and what kind of hp increases you see.