The Super comps are Glowing??
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
The Super comps are Glowing??
I just got my motor put together and began the breakin period...while it was running between 800-1200 RPM for 10-15 min the damn headers started glowing pink 
wtf? I haven't had a motor do this before unless i was running the dog **** out of it... specs are below. This is the first motor i've built with this duration and lift. Also, i think i'm gonna have to get an aluminum radiator cause this mother gets warmer quicker and i can't sustain decent temps unless i'm cruising. Oil temp is good though. Thanks
wtf? I haven't had a motor do this before unless i was running the dog **** out of it... specs are below. This is the first motor i've built with this duration and lift. Also, i think i'm gonna have to get an aluminum radiator cause this mother gets warmer quicker and i can't sustain decent temps unless i'm cruising. Oil temp is good though. Thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,144
Likes: 18
From: Panhandle FL
I think most likely its your carb. If the mixture is way out of wack, they will glow. When I installed my coated super comps, Jet Hot puts a warning in the box.
" If you don't adjust your mixture, your car will run lean when you install these headers. This can cause excess heat and ruin the ceramic coating." or something like that.
I'm sure somebody else will chime in.
" If you don't adjust your mixture, your car will run lean when you install these headers. This can cause excess heat and ruin the ceramic coating." or something like that.
I'm sure somebody else will chime in.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 2
From: Champaign, IL
St. Jude Donor '05
I talked to Jet Hot after my ceramic coating burned .... They said that headers will reach 1200* when you're breaking in a new engine or a new cam. I was breaking in a new engine and a new cam so I guess that's what happened ... are your headers coated?
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 2
From: Champaign, IL
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by kpforce1
Yes they are ceramic coated hookers
My engine was running on the rich side because I was running with the stock GM ECM for a couple days so that might have had something to do with it too.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 540
Likes: 1
From: Taunton MA
Originally Posted by ski_dwn_it
Triple check your timing - most likely retarded timing. This causes unburned fuel to burn in the headers.
also check the adjustment on your carb. This happned to my frien on his 3rd gen f-body it turned out being acouple of injectors getting partly stuck open and the unburnt fuel was burning off in the headers.
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Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by ski_dwn_it
Triple check your timing - most likely retarded timing. This causes unburned fuel to burn in the headers.
Mine dulled on another car while breaking in the cam-Timing was way retarded.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 14,924
Likes: 9
From: Merritt Ils Fl
Originally Posted by ski_dwn_it
Triple check your timing - most likely retarded timing. This causes unburned fuel to burn in the headers.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
Ok, so i'm guessing that my timing is off. After speaking with a crane cams tech, he said that I should install the cam at 4 deg retarded (which cancels the cams 4 deg advance in the grind) so the mechanical timing is at 0 deg. I was running the Car at 4 deg retarded via moving the distributor and ended up moving it to 8 deg advance after the car ran like ****. The car pick up some Hp but the headers were still glowing at 8deg advance. I haven't got 500 miles on the motor yet so I'm not gonna romp on it yet...havent pushed the motor past 3600 RPM or so. Still feels like it should be stronger...(cam doesn't really kick in until 2500 anyway)... My headers came from Hooker coated. I forgot that I still had a cat on my car as well, the empty one is going back on, don't think i need the backpressure having the flowmasters on it.
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
It strikes me as extremely odd that they would tell you to install it 4 degrees retarded. That cam isn't all that big, it should make very good power if you install it straight up.
Oh well, as for the headers it's either carb jetting or bad timing, or a combination of both. Either should be fixable pretty easily.
Oh well, as for the headers it's either carb jetting or bad timing, or a combination of both. Either should be fixable pretty easily.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
can i still fix the timing issue by moving the distrubutor and messing with the timing that way or will i have to take the front of the motor apart and install the cam straight up?
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 686
Likes: 62
From: San Jose Ca
Valve timing and ignition timing are two entirely different things. It sounds like you're confusing the two. If you installed the cam 4* retarded, thus nullifying the ground in 4* advance, that should be ok. It's the ignition timing that seems to be the issue. Generally speaking, igntion timing would be 10 degrees at idle (to pick a number) with a total advance of 34-36 degrees at around 3000rpm. This is a good starting point and will likely require re-curving of the distributors centrifugal advance to achieve, especially on stock HEI's. One thing that comes to mind is, are you using the original distributor from the CFI? If so, there is NO advance mechanism at all as it is computed by the ECM. Since you've gone carbed, you need to install a distributor with a mechanical advance. If THIS is the case, then you would very likely have glowing headers and a serious lack of power. Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
Originally Posted by MaxLean
Valve timing and ignition timing are two entirely different things. It sounds like you're confusing the two. If you installed the cam 4* retarded, thus nullifying the ground in 4* advance, that should be ok. It's the ignition timing that seems to be the issue. Generally speaking, igntion timing would be 10 degrees at idle (to pick a number) with a total advance of 34-36 degrees at around 3000rpm. This is a good starting point and will likely require re-curving of the distributors centrifugal advance to achieve, especially on stock HEI's. One thing that comes to mind is, are you using the original distributor from the CFI? If so, there is NO advance mechanism at all as it is computed by the ECM. Since you've gone carbed, you need to install a distributor with a mechanical advance. If THIS is the case, then you would very likely have glowing headers and a serious lack of power. Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
One question about the total advance...there is a problem with the hypertech pistons i have when running over 34* total advance (i have the top ring gapped to ensure that i won't have piston heads pulled off though) so i don't really want to push past that. Is the total advance max at 3000 RPM or at a different RPM??
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 686
Likes: 62
From: San Jose Ca
Originally Posted by kpforce1
Well, i have a hypertech hi volt coil on what is I think the stock distributor bottom...so there is no mechanical advance. I can't wait to get the MSD working again. It pulled about as hard as the 350 hp motor i had in it before, and it is running way out of time...i can't wait to get it tuned One question about the total advance...there is a problem with the hypertech pistons i have when running over 34* total advance (i have the top ring gapped to ensure that i won't have piston heads pulled off though) so i don't really want to push past that. Is the total advance max at 3000 RPM or at a different RPM??
One question about the total advance...there is a problem with the hypertech pistons i have when running over 34* total advance (i have the top ring gapped to ensure that i won't have piston heads pulled off though) so i don't really want to push past that. Is the total advance max at 3000 RPM or at a different RPM??
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 875
Likes: 0
From: Louisville KY
Originally Posted by MaxLean
You MUST get a proper distributor in there. When you say there is a problem with the hypertech pistons, what do you mean? If you mean hyperutectic pistons, then they are actually stronger than stock and assuming your compression ratio is reasonable, 36* total centrifugal advance should be completely doable. The rpm that the advance is totally in does depend upon application, but it is usually between 2800-3500rpm.
LMAO I'm a dumb ***....hypertech pistons?? da hell is that... i meant speed pro pistons...compression ratio is 10.5-11 on the calculations. I talked to a number of racing shops and there was a general conclusion that if the speed pro's top ring isn't gapped at 40 thousanths the tops of the pistons were getting pulled off. They had failures when running to much over 34* total advance as well. But what do I know...i mean i did say hypertech pistons..
Pro
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 686
Likes: 62
From: San Jose Ca
Originally Posted by kpforce1
LMAO I'm a dumb ***....hypertech pistons?? da hell is that... i meant speed pro pistons...compression ratio is 10.5-11 on the calculations. I talked to a number of racing shops and there was a general conclusion that if the speed pro's top ring isn't gapped at 40 thousanths the tops of the pistons were getting pulled off. They had failures when running to much over 34* total advance as well. But what do I know...i mean i did say hypertech pistons..
