Why the LT4 ??
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: Kalamazoo MI
I think it's important to note that comparing these two engines (LT4 and LSx) is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes, they both have 8 cylinders and similar displacements. But the LT4 is the last of the "small block" family. LSx's were designed from the ground up to be much improved. GM even refers to them as "medium displacement V8's" They are a completely new breed of engine. Even the cylinder firing order is different. Everyone knows of the remarkable flowing LSx heads, but the block itself is much departed from traditional "small block". One of the goals of the LSx was to obtain 1 HP per cubic inch of displacement. Granted the LT4 does this as well, but at a higher RPM than LSx. If anyone has some time to kill check out this link. Very informative on LS1.
http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
Really is a shame they didn't stick with the LT5. The LT5 is what happens when the engineers tell the bean counters where to stick it!
http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
Really is a shame they didn't stick with the LT5. The LT5 is what happens when the engineers tell the bean counters where to stick it!
Last edited by k99ja04; Jan 19, 2005 at 02:56 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by k99ja04
I think it's important to note that comparing these two engines (LT4 and LSx) is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes, they both have 8 cylinders and similar displacements. But the LT4 is the last of the "small block" family. LSx's were designed from the ground up to be much improved. GM even refers to them as "medium displacement V8's" They are a completely new breed of engine. Even the cylinder firing order is different. Everyone knows of the remarkable flowing LSx heads, but the block itself is much departed from traditional "small block". One of the goals of the LSx was to obtain 1 HP per cubic inch of displacement. Granted the LT4 does this as well, but at a higher RPM than LSx. If anyone has some time to kill check out this link. Very informative on LS1.
http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
Really is a shame they didn't stick with the LT5. The LT5 is what happens when the engineers tell the bean counters where to stick it!
http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls1c.html
Really is a shame they didn't stick with the LT5. The LT5 is what happens when the engineers tell the bean counters where to stick it!
The LT5 is a good motor, but very complex and very heavy. A ZR1 weighed 200 lbs more than the same base coupe.
BTW, the LT5 solders on as the father of the Caddy Northstar!
Racer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: Kalamazoo MI
Originally Posted by bogus
As I stated above, the only thing in common between the SBC and the LSx motor is bore center. That's IT!!!
The LT5 is a good motor, but very complex and very heavy. A ZR1 weighed 200 lbs more than the same base coupe.
BTW, the LT5 solders on as the father of the Caddy Northstar!
The LT5 is a good motor, but very complex and very heavy. A ZR1 weighed 200 lbs more than the same base coupe.
BTW, the LT5 solders on as the father of the Caddy Northstar!
Wasn't the LT5 an aluminum block? Must be all that computer crap weighing it down. Who else finds themselves wanting a Caddy XLR-V when it comes out?
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,484
Likes: 1
From: Everyday you must choose between the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. Fredericktown, OH
Originally Posted by bogus
An all new Vette was being released, and it had to be better, in all facets, than the prior version. That meant, it had to have more power than the base model it replaced. The engine was new, the drivetrain, the chassis, everything.
I believe the LT-4 is a result of multiple factors, using r&d that had yet to find its way into the LT-1, sending the C4 out with a bang, filling the HP hole left by the departing LT-5, and they needs to find a way to make sure they sold vettes.
People will argue that they still sold a ton of LT-1 vettes in 1996, but would all the people who bought LT-4s have bought an LT-1 or waited?
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
I bought, actually leased, my LT4 because......well I wanted an LT4, and loved the stealth aspect of having a GrandSport engine in sheeps clothing.....BlackSheep that is...
Another really big reason.......In 1996 GM was selling $40K Vettes for $28K.......then they added great lease deals with the idea buyers would be back in 2 years to buy a C5.......but no C5 for me, I could not pass the buyout on the LT4!!!!! In 1997 GM was selling $40K Vette for $40K+....
Another really big reason.......In 1996 GM was selling $40K Vettes for $28K.......then they added great lease deals with the idea buyers would be back in 2 years to buy a C5.......but no C5 for me, I could not pass the buyout on the LT4!!!!! In 1997 GM was selling $40K Vette for $40K+....
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62,122
Likes: 1,725
From: Athens AL
C7 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist 2021
C4 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Originally Posted by k99ja04
I guess bogus doesn't sleep either Wasn't the LT5 an aluminum block? Must be all that computer crap weighing it down.
Wasn't the LT5 an aluminum block? Must be all that computer crap weighing it down.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,348
Likes: 233
From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
Originally Posted by LT4BUD
In 1996 GM was selling $40K Vettes for $28K..
I'd like to know where!
I have the original sales invoice for my LT-4 and it sold new for $37K.
Larry
code5coupe
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Originally Posted by rocco16
I'd like to know where!
I have the original sales invoice for my LT-4 and it sold new for $37K.
Larry
code5coupe
I have the original sales invoice for my LT-4 and it sold new for $37K.
Larry
code5coupe
The local dealer was doing LT1's for around $28k, the price on GrandSports & Collector Editions & LT4's were not nearly as discounted.
I finally got my LT4 on lease & the dealer had a buyer waiting for my 89 trade-in so I got a pretty good deal......
GM then promoted the 97's as no price increase.....reality was MSRP may have not gone up, but real world selling price sure did...
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Race Director
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 16,950
Likes: 0
From: Stafford, Virginia Kittah, Kittah, Kittah...
Originally Posted by vader86
82 was a crossfire, yes.
GM had to tool up the LT1 in its last year of production because most of the information about the C5 was already out, and they wanted to give people a reason to buy the 96s, so they bumped up the power. GM usually does this when they know people will just wait to buy the newer, improved model.
GM had to tool up the LT1 in its last year of production because most of the information about the C5 was already out, and they wanted to give people a reason to buy the 96s, so they bumped up the power. GM usually does this when they know people will just wait to buy the newer, improved model.
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,101
Likes: 4
From: No more yankee my wankee, the Donger is tired!
Originally Posted by wake
Why didn't they do something for 2004 then???
Pro
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 744
Likes: 1
From: Houston Tx
LT4 was done for several , aforementioned reasons:
Last year of C4s's 12 year production, no more high hp LT5, needed to sell cars even though the new C5 was coming next year, final display of Gen II production power in Vette.
LT4 produces nearly identical power and torque curves as early Ls1's. Even modified they are very close but the edge going to the LS1. LT4 was underrated by about 10-15 hp , it should have been exactly what early LS1 was , 345hp. Even GM engineers stated when the C5 arrived that it was about the same overall performance as the 1996 LT4 it replaced on paper, the difference was in the feel.
What is kind of amazing is that had the LTx engines been aluminum blocks , those C4's would be as light as LSx cars (though not nearly as stiff).
Last year of C4s's 12 year production, no more high hp LT5, needed to sell cars even though the new C5 was coming next year, final display of Gen II production power in Vette.
LT4 produces nearly identical power and torque curves as early Ls1's. Even modified they are very close but the edge going to the LS1. LT4 was underrated by about 10-15 hp , it should have been exactly what early LS1 was , 345hp. Even GM engineers stated when the C5 arrived that it was about the same overall performance as the 1996 LT4 it replaced on paper, the difference was in the feel.
What is kind of amazing is that had the LTx engines been aluminum blocks , those C4's would be as light as LSx cars (though not nearly as stiff).
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Originally Posted by k99ja04
Whoops, I meant to give bogus credit for that observation. Couldn't remember who said it off hand and was too lazy to re-read the thread. I guess bogus doesn't sleep either Wasn't the LT5 an aluminum block? Must be all that computer crap weighing it down. Who else finds themselves wanting a Caddy XLR-V when it comes out?
Wasn't the LT5 an aluminum block? Must be all that computer crap weighing it down. Who else finds themselves wanting a Caddy XLR-V when it comes out?What made is so heavy was the heads and complex intake system. The steel liners ain't much...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,287
Likes: 7
From: n/a SC
Not sure why they choose to change the lt1 some. I know a coupe guys with lt4's and I have driven them and not noticed that power difference from my 95 lt1(lt4 only pulls a little harder from 5800 rpm and on...theres not much left after 5800) I have even beaten these lt4 they have at the track many times so I really don't see how people say they have more than 330hp. Also these guys have had some problems with theirs, seems like they took a solid platform and slapped a few upgrades on it at the last minute to me so not a lt4 fan and not sure why GM went this route.
I THINK they shoulda put the lt5 in the cars not upgraded the lt1.....that woulda been something to sell the 96's for sure!
also the lt4 had the same torque as a lt1......340lbs...nto 350 like someone mentioned.
I THINK they shoulda put the lt5 in the cars not upgraded the lt1.....that woulda been something to sell the 96's for sure!
also the lt4 had the same torque as a lt1......340lbs...nto 350 like someone mentioned.
Last edited by wildman378; Jan 19, 2005 at 09:56 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
From: Littleton CO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by MikeC4
did all '96's come with the LT-4, or was this an option, with the LT-1 as base?
what are the published HP and Torque specs for the LT-4?
inquiring blogger wants to know!
what are the published HP and Torque specs for the LT-4?
inquiring blogger wants to know!
for a comparison between the LT1 and LT4.
Last edited by qwik96GS; Jan 19, 2005 at 10:21 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
From: Littleton CO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by jlallande
All the 1996 6 speeds were LT4's (about 1/3 of the total produced). The automatics were LT1's.
LT1 Engines were mated only to automatic transmissions. So a lot of automatics were produced.
Last edited by qwik96GS; Jan 19, 2005 at 10:19 PM.
