HP tuners 2/3 bar SD setup
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,418
Likes: 1
From: Chicagoland Area IL
Strictly theoretically speaking, running of MAF sensor should be superior to speed density. As far as I understand it, MAF also runs cleaner and more reliably then SD.
But from a FI aspect, SD is the way to go, especially since most C5 MAF sensors max out before peak RPM/boost is hit.
Oh, I think it really comes down to experience, most tuners really have LS1Edit nailed down and there may be a comfort factor associated with it.
But from a FI aspect, SD is the way to go, especially since most C5 MAF sensors max out before peak RPM/boost is hit.
Oh, I think it really comes down to experience, most tuners really have LS1Edit nailed down and there may be a comfort factor associated with it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
Is anyone here running a SD tune with the HP tuners 2/3 bar option? It has been out for a while, but I have not heard much about it.
i am or i should say will be. i have all the parts, also upgraded enhanced io too. i received my lc1 innovate wide band. my car will be a moving tuning shop
guys on the ls1tech board are running mafless
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by Skunkworks
Oh, I think it really comes down to experience, most tuners really have LS1Edit nailed down and there may be a comfort factor associated with it.
YES! and money too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,504
Likes: 25
From: Insert Wittty Comment here
Originally Posted by Skunkworks
Strictly theoretically speaking, running of MAF sensor should be superior to speed density. As far as I understand it, MAF also runs cleaner and more reliably then SD.
But from a FI aspect, SD is the way to go, especially since most C5 MAF sensors max out before peak RPM/boost is hit.
Oh, I think it really comes down to experience, most tuners really have LS1Edit nailed down and there may be a comfort factor associated with it.
But from a FI aspect, SD is the way to go, especially since most C5 MAF sensors max out before peak RPM/boost is hit.
Oh, I think it really comes down to experience, most tuners really have LS1Edit nailed down and there may be a comfort factor associated with it.
I've tuned in SD. After doing so, I'll never go back to MAF tunes... My buddy Pete is running the 2/3bar SD stuff. Works like a champ...
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by J-Rod
If you had a MAF that could keep up, perhaps that would be the case. But, if you look at the aftermarket systems out there, all of them are SD. If MAF were superior I'd think you'd see them in action.
I've tuned in SD. After doing so, I'll never go back to MAF tunes... My buddy Pete is running the 2/3bar SD stuff. Works like a champ...
I've tuned in SD. After doing so, I'll never go back to MAF tunes... My buddy Pete is running the 2/3bar SD stuff. Works like a champ...
J-ROD NICE TO SEE YOU HERE!!!!!!!!
as you probably know i have 2 bar w/enhance io. i should have my 03 c5 a/4 forged 8.37 compression ptk 03 c5 running shortly. keith told me he wasnt sure when 3 bar was going to be complete. ill upgrade when it's out.
mark cost me $950 for hp edit enhanced io and 2 bar option.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by mdhmi
What is the cost, approximately, in switching over to the 2/3 bar stuff? Also, in summary, what difference would I _notice_ ?
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
mark i had neither ls1 edit nor hp so the way i am looking at it it cost me, 150 enhance io 290 for 2 bar..........not bad.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 2
From: Tx
Originally Posted by Skunkworks
Strictly theoretically speaking, running of MAF sensor should be superior to speed density. As far as I understand it, MAF also runs cleaner and more reliably then SD.
But from a FI aspect, SD is the way to go, especially since most C5 MAF sensors max out before peak RPM/boost is hit.
Oh, I think it really comes down to experience, most tuners really have LS1Edit nailed down and there may be a comfort factor associated with it.
But from a FI aspect, SD is the way to go, especially since most C5 MAF sensors max out before peak RPM/boost is hit.
Oh, I think it really comes down to experience, most tuners really have LS1Edit nailed down and there may be a comfort factor associated with it.
I've never done an SD tune on an ls1, but everyone who has claims the smoothness of the motor is greatly improved. The Australian guys have been doing it for years and there is actually an ls1 based Holden that comes from the factory without a MAF.
I know SD is good for a highly modified setup, I'm just wondering if the HP tuners implementation works as advertised without major bugs. I'm pretty sure they tweak the PCMs operating code for the 2/3bar mode and that is very different from just calibrating the PCM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
Likes: 527
From: Clouds Over California
I have a contact for SD tuning with HP 2bar and waiting for the 3bar, if Andy had his Load Cell installed when I was down there (load cell on the way) I would have done a SD tune with the new MAP sensor. I would also need the 3bar HPtuning software, because I would be pushing over 14.7lbs of boost (2bar max).
The contact I have is out of Australia and has helped JRod and a couple of others. He even offerred to come to California to help out but told me he could give me all the information and files over the internet. His partnering business is out of Texas and he uses a phone number from there..pretty cool I can call Texas and talk to Australia. Anyway, its just a matter of time until run SD 3bar with a Wide Band monitoring everything.
The contact I have is out of Australia and has helped JRod and a couple of others. He even offerred to come to California to help out but told me he could give me all the information and files over the internet. His partnering business is out of Texas and he uses a phone number from there..pretty cool I can call Texas and talk to Australia. Anyway, its just a matter of time until run SD 3bar with a Wide Band monitoring everything.
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; May 2, 2005 at 12:17 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 2
From: Tx
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
I have a contact for SD tuning with HP 2bar and waiting for the 3bar, if Andy had his Load Cell installed when I was down there (load cell on the way) I would have done a SD tune with the new MAP sensor. I would also need the 3bar HPtuning software, because I would be pushing over 14.7lbs of boost (2bar max).
The contact I have is out of Australia and has helped JRod and a couple of others. He even offerred to come to California to help out but told me he could give me all the information and files over the internet. His partnering business is out of Texas and he uses a phone number from there..pretty cool I can call Texas and talk to Australia. Anyway, its just a matter of time until run SD 3bar with a Wide Band monitoring everything.
The contact I have is out of Australia and has helped JRod and a couple of others. He even offerred to come to California to help out but told me he could give me all the information and files over the internet. His partnering business is out of Texas and he uses a phone number from there..pretty cool I can call Texas and talk to Australia. Anyway, its just a matter of time until run SD 3bar with a Wide Band monitoring everything.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
I'm assuming this guy is charging for service. If so, can you post the contact info? I'm probably going to try this the hard way, but I may end up needing some help.
i'd like to find tuner that is fimilair w/sd tuning in the pa nj.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,418
Likes: 1
From: Chicagoland Area IL
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
Yea, theory and the real world are two totally different things. MAFs work great in a steady state, but the current hardware simply can't react smoothly to rapid change. In fact, the PCM uses a combination of SD and MAF during most throttle transitions because the MAF is not reliable in those conditions. This is mainly due to the fact that the MAF is on the wrong side of the TB.
I've never done an SD tune on an ls1, but everyone who has claims the smoothness of the motor is greatly improved. The Australian guys have been doing it for years and there is actually an ls1 based Holden that comes from the factory without a MAF.
I know SD is good for a highly modified setup, I'm just wondering if the HP tuners implementation works as advertised without major bugs. I'm pretty sure they tweak the PCMs operating code for the 2/3bar mode and that is very different from just calibrating the PCM.
I've never done an SD tune on an ls1, but everyone who has claims the smoothness of the motor is greatly improved. The Australian guys have been doing it for years and there is actually an ls1 based Holden that comes from the factory without a MAF.
I know SD is good for a highly modified setup, I'm just wondering if the HP tuners implementation works as advertised without major bugs. I'm pretty sure they tweak the PCMs operating code for the 2/3bar mode and that is very different from just calibrating the PCM.
In the industrial controls world we use mass flow transmitters as much as possible to close loops. It removes allot of variability that can be associated with trying to calculate mass based on multi-sensor feedback (cumulative error). This is not C5 related, but can see maintaining AFR being easier with MAF.
I’m probably a month or two from installing a supercharger on my car and now considering letting Speed Inc. do a SD tune.
If you decide to go SD, keep us posted and good luck.
I’m new to this forum, there is wealth of knowledge here and enjoying it!
Mike
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
Likes: 527
From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
I'm assuming this guy is charging for service. If so, can you post the contact info? I'm probably going to try this the hard way, but I may end up needing some help.
I am going to PM you, he was looking for somebody to work with I think. He PM'd me.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by QuickSilver2002
Is anyone here running a SD tune with the HP tuners 2/3 bar option? It has been out for a while, but I have not heard much about it.
Pete.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
I have a contact for SD tuning with HP 2bar and waiting for the 3bar, if Andy had his Load Cell installed when I was down there (load cell on the way) I would have done a SD tune with the new MAP sensor. I would also need the 3bar HPtuning software, because I would be pushing over 14.7lbs of boost (2bar max).
The contact I have is out of Australia and has helped JRod and a couple of others. He even offerred to come to California to help out but told me he could give me all the information and files over the internet. His partnering businesUNE I as is out of Texas and he uses a phone number from there..pretty cool I can call Texas and talk to Australia. Anyway, its just a matter of time until run SD 3bar with a Wide Band monitoring everything.
The contact I have is out of Australia and has helped JRod and a couple of others. He even offerred to come to California to help out but told me he could give me all the information and files over the internet. His partnering businesUNE I as is out of Texas and he uses a phone number from there..pretty cool I can call Texas and talk to Australia. Anyway, its just a matter of time until run SD 3bar with a Wide Band monitoring everything.
I SEE!!! KEVIN I SPOKE TO PETE FOR 30 MINUTES THIS MORNING.
kevin i guess you already know that i spoke w/pete. so what do you think? ill send him my bin and he'll send base map, should be able to tune over phone but still need dyno facility, he said he might make his way over to ecs when he's in the states(JUNE I BELIEVE)
Last edited by NICK YOSKIN; May 3, 2005 at 10:01 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 0
From: over the water Cali
The question remains how smooth can they make the grid or how finely can you control the SD mode in a 3bar system with the stock computer.
I am waiting to see their 3bar system in action and on paper.
I am waiting to see their 3bar system in action and on paper.