STS boost/RPM relation
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
I'm sure that when you step on the throttle in 4th gear that your turbo's DON"T spool up to 9# at 1800rpms.
OH - HELL NO!!!!!!!!! I didn't realize that is what you were saying! Thought it was a veiled bashing!
At 1800 rpms I'm lucky to see 1 to 2 psi of boost in normal spring/summer/early fall weather. Only in freezing temps would I see anything more! Sorry about that! 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
OH - HELL NO!!!!!!!!! I didn't realize that is what you were saying! Thought it was a veiled bashing! At 1800 rpms I'm lucky to see 1 to 2 psi of boost in normal spring/summer/early fall weather. Only in freezing temps would I see anything more! Sorry about that!
At 1800 rpms I'm lucky to see 1 to 2 psi of boost in normal spring/summer/early fall weather. Only in freezing temps would I see anything more! Sorry about that! Wouldn't bash you dude! or LPE for that matter!
Thanks for not taking it wrong, I do recommend the readings though....I stuck a couple of books behind my ****ter...good for brushing up on things...and in case I run out of tp.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,053
Likes: 69
From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
No offense, and I hope you don't take this wrong. But I would suggest going to a book store and buying a book or reading online somewhere about turbo charging, engineering, and development. They are a better place to educate then this forum. It also keeps some misunderstanding from occurrying when discussing basic turbo topics such as boost point or boost threshold.
Also John Altman has a 427cid TT from LPE, unless he doesn't know what he is talking about or wanted to convince me otherwise. He has told me numerous times that his car has GT35s on it, and that he stays at John Pages house. But I don't know, maybe it was all just BS.
Also John Altman has a 427cid TT from LPE, unless he doesn't know what he is talking about or wanted to convince me otherwise. He has told me numerous times that his car has GT35s on it, and that he stays at John Pages house. But I don't know, maybe it was all just BS.
No 1 - non taken.
No 2 - I have 5 extensive texts on turbos - I know exactly what you're saying - sometimes things aren't written 'clearly' in haste on these fora! You didn't mention low boost threshold in your post - but no worries. I love turbos and love to digest info from many sources, BUT - that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, and thus I assumed that you were misinformed - which is common on such a forum.
No 3 - Your friend isn't likely telling mistruths - he likely does have those turbos - but they aren't standard with the basic package. If you tell LPE that you want more than 645 rwhp, then they upgrade the package and charge you accordingly. He is making more than 645 rwhp isn't he?
EDIT: I like your tp reference! Sometimes my legs get numb from a good turbo read on the throne!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
No 1 - non taken.
No 2 - I have 5 extensive texts on turbos - I know exactly what you're saying - sometimes things aren't written 'clearly' in haste on these fora! You didn't mention low boost threshold in your post - but no worries. I love turbos and love to digest info from many sources, BUT - that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, and thus I assumed that you were misinformed - which is common on such a forum.
No 3 - Your friend isn't likely telling mistruths - he likely does have those turbos - but they aren't standard with the basic package. If you tell LPE that you want more than 645 rwhp, then they upgrade the package and charge you accordingly. He is making more than 645 rwhp isn't he?
No 2 - I have 5 extensive texts on turbos - I know exactly what you're saying - sometimes things aren't written 'clearly' in haste on these fora! You didn't mention low boost threshold in your post - but no worries. I love turbos and love to digest info from many sources, BUT - that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, and thus I assumed that you were misinformed - which is common on such a forum.
No 3 - Your friend isn't likely telling mistruths - he likely does have those turbos - but they aren't standard with the basic package. If you tell LPE that you want more than 645 rwhp, then they upgrade the package and charge you accordingly. He is making more than 645 rwhp isn't he?
Yes he is making more power then that...he made over 700rwhp with his TT 427 setup. So not knowing all the business details, or maybe I misunderstood him. Maybe he just purchased the GT35s as an option..which would be in line with what you are saying...and I personally believe would be better suited for 427cid. Hell I would put them on a 346cid.
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
EDIT: I like your tp reference! Sometimes my legs get numb from a good turbo read on the throne!!
My wife often says, what are you doing in there....I often tell her not what you think....you should go ask our teenage boy what he is doing in there....I am reading about Turbos.As for the C&D article I thought it was kind of lame, do they realize if you try and launch a NA Stock C5 at 2600 rpms it would spin the tires. I would much rather have spool up after 3K....it lets you get the car moving and doesn't make it a hassle to drive at lower rpms.
As for the road course it is about gear selection, looks like the testers weren't familar enough with the car to figure out what gear to put it in when exiting out of the corners.
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; Dec 15, 2005 at 02:16 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 59
From: Abingdon VA
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
I just know him because he has hauled a couple of cars for me.
Yes he is making more power then that...he made over 700rwhp with his TT 427 setup. So not knowing all the business details, or maybe I misunderstood him. Maybe he just purchased the GT35s as an option..which would be in line with what you are saying...and I personally believe would be better suited for 427cid. Hell I would put them on a 346cid.
My wife often says, what are you doing in there....I often tell her not what you think....you should go ask our teenage boy what he is doing in there....I am reading about Turbos.
As for the C&D article I thought it was kind of lame, do they realize if you try and launch a NA Stock C5 at 2600 rpms it would spin the tires. I would much rather have spool up after 3K....it lets you get the car moving and doesn't make it a hassle to drive at lower rpms.
As for the road course it is about gear selection, looks like the testers weren't familar enough with the car to figure out what gear to put it in when exiting out of the corners.
Yes he is making more power then that...he made over 700rwhp with his TT 427 setup. So not knowing all the business details, or maybe I misunderstood him. Maybe he just purchased the GT35s as an option..which would be in line with what you are saying...and I personally believe would be better suited for 427cid. Hell I would put them on a 346cid.
My wife often says, what are you doing in there....I often tell her not what you think....you should go ask our teenage boy what he is doing in there....I am reading about Turbos.As for the C&D article I thought it was kind of lame, do they realize if you try and launch a NA Stock C5 at 2600 rpms it would spin the tires. I would much rather have spool up after 3K....it lets you get the car moving and doesn't make it a hassle to drive at lower rpms.
As for the road course it is about gear selection, looks like the testers weren't familar enough with the car to figure out what gear to put it in when exiting out of the corners.
LPE basic turbo for 550/650/725 all engine sizes is the GT2871R that maxes arounf 44lbs/min or roughly 475 engine hp each...say 500 as "ratings" vs reality do differ.
Their $$ upgrade is the GT3071R that maxes around 50ish lbs/min or roughly 540-560 engine hp each.
A very, very few select LPE cars are running GT35r's....which the last one dyno'd 1038rwhp as y'all know.
Cheers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
Likes: 527
From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by onfire
LPE basic turbo for 550/650/725 all engine sizes is the GT2871R that maxes arounf 44lbs/min or roughly 475 engine hp each...say 500 as "ratings" vs reality do differ.
Their $$ upgrade is the GT3071R that maxes around 50ish lbs/min or roughly 540-560 engine hp each.
A very, very few select LPE cars are running GT35r's....which the last one dyno'd 1038rwhp as y'all know.
Cheers.
Their $$ upgrade is the GT3071R that maxes around 50ish lbs/min or roughly 540-560 engine hp each.
A very, very few select LPE cars are running GT35r's....which the last one dyno'd 1038rwhp as y'all know.
Cheers.
I do have a question about your last statement. I think that number (1038) came from an engine dyno, not rear wheel numbers. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that one post was all engine dyno numbers...not chassis.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,053
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
My wife often says, what are you doing in there....I often tell her not what you think....you should go ask our teenage boy what he is doing in there....I am reading about Turbos.As for the C&D article I thought it was kind of lame, do they realize if you try and launch a NA Stock C5 at 2600 rpms it would spin the tires. I would much rather have spool up after 3K....it lets you get the car moving and doesn't make it a hassle to drive at lower rpms.
As for the road course it is about gear selection, looks like the testers weren't familar enough with the car to figure out what gear to put it in when exiting out of the corners.
You crack me up man! We don't want to know what the teenage boy is doing in there!
Yes - C&D didn't have a clue how to properly drive that car - but then, you know how it is, it is a steep learning curve, but once you've driven the car for a season, then you know which gear to use to get the real power out of it - just a day of driving won't make you proficient enough to get the best times that it can offer. Honestly, I think your car drives almost identical to mine. Here is my dyno on high boost, and as you can see, my torque numbers were wrong - it made more than I thought!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 59
From: Abingdon VA
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
Good information. I have spec'd the GT30-71R for a 346cid on a couple of concepts I have thought about. In fact I met with one of the interns for Turbonetics that helped develop it a couple years ago, sharp kid!
I do have a question about your last statement. I think that number (1038) came from an engine dyno, not rear wheel numbers. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that one post was all engine dyno numbers...not chassis.
I do have a question about your last statement. I think that number (1038) came from an engine dyno, not rear wheel numbers. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that one post was all engine dyno numbers...not chassis.
12psi rwhp was around 800
22psi rwhp was around 1038
http://www.lingenfelter.com/1038hp.BMP
All with a quiet smooth stock idle....LPE is awesome.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
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From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
You crack me up man! We don't want to know what the teenage boy is doing in there!
Yes - C&D didn't have a clue how to properly drive that car - but then, you know how it is, it is a steep learning curve, but once you've driven the car for a season, then you know which gear to use to get the real power out of it - just a day of driving won't make you proficient enough to get the best times that it can offer. Honestly, I think your car drives almost identical to mine. Here is my dyno on high boost, and as you can see, my torque numbers were wrong - it made more than I thought!
Yes - C&D didn't have a clue how to properly drive that car - but then, you know how it is, it is a steep learning curve, but once you've driven the car for a season, then you know which gear to use to get the real power out of it - just a day of driving won't make you proficient enough to get the best times that it can offer. Honestly, I think your car drives almost identical to mine. Here is my dyno on high boost, and as you can see, my torque numbers were wrong - it made more than I thought!
That graph is sweet! Gotta love fat tq through the mid rpm and pulling like a **** at the top.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
Likes: 527
From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by onfire
Engine dyno with GT35's was ~1400hp.
12psi rwhp was around 800
22psi rwhp was around 1038
http://www.lingenfelter.com/1038hp.BMP
All with a quiet smooth stock idle....LPE is awesome.
12psi rwhp was around 800
22psi rwhp was around 1038
http://www.lingenfelter.com/1038hp.BMP
All with a quiet smooth stock idle....LPE is awesome.
I have an issue with graphs that show mph vs. rpm. See if you can dig up that same graph with rpm instead of mph....mph doesn't really paint the picture. I wanna see if its dropping at 5500 rpms or 6000 rpms. I like to see that kind of stuff.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,053
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
That graph is sweet! Gotta love fat tq through the mid rpm and pulling like a **** at the top.
Please note: I haven't driven a 427 TT as of yet, so I don't know about all the extra torque down low that I'm missing out on!! Once I drive one, I may do something stupid!
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,851
Likes: 1
From: San Bruno Ca
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
My spool up goes something like this.
1-2# 2200-2400 rpms
2-4# 2400-2800 rpms
4-6# 2800-3300 rpms
6-9# 3300-3400 rpms, a 3# jump full spool up.
Nicks Turbos are slight smaller...only rated at 10 or 20 hp less then mine. His spool up max slightly quicker, the SD tune helps and his little trick is going to drop the whole range a couple of 100 rpms.
One of the success's of having turbos that spool from 33-45% of redline, is that they will normally pull well into the upper rpm ranges.
Very low spool up is good for towing or breaking things on a performance car. Nick's track results are a result and proof of this. Enough to easily push his 346cids into the 9's.
As for off boost drivability, I have learned to embrace it, as it is almost as if you have a stock vehicle under 2500rpms...which is where the majority of normal shifting and driving occurs...and fuel economy. I have a pretty good commute and little traffic. There are times I am cruising and times I am battling traction...I still have been averaging 19-22mpg.
The trick to off boost driving is down shifting and knowing which rpm and gear you have to get into, to be in full spool up. For me, if I'm cruis'n in 4th gear at 60 mph @ 1800-2000rpms, a simple drop to 3rd gear puts me right at 3400rpms and instantly into max boost. Its all pretty easy.
1-2# 2200-2400 rpms
2-4# 2400-2800 rpms
4-6# 2800-3300 rpms
6-9# 3300-3400 rpms, a 3# jump full spool up.
Nicks Turbos are slight smaller...only rated at 10 or 20 hp less then mine. His spool up max slightly quicker, the SD tune helps and his little trick is going to drop the whole range a couple of 100 rpms.
One of the success's of having turbos that spool from 33-45% of redline, is that they will normally pull well into the upper rpm ranges.
Very low spool up is good for towing or breaking things on a performance car. Nick's track results are a result and proof of this. Enough to easily push his 346cids into the 9's.
As for off boost drivability, I have learned to embrace it, as it is almost as if you have a stock vehicle under 2500rpms...which is where the majority of normal shifting and driving occurs...and fuel economy. I have a pretty good commute and little traffic. There are times I am cruising and times I am battling traction...I still have been averaging 19-22mpg.
The trick to off boost driving is down shifting and knowing which rpm and gear you have to get into, to be in full spool up. For me, if I'm cruis'n in 4th gear at 60 mph @ 1800-2000rpms, a simple drop to 3rd gear puts me right at 3400rpms and instantly into max boost. Its all pretty easy.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
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From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
Thanks man - this is why I never stepped up the plate for the 427 - with the power level that this car makes, I just can't justify it.......................yet!
Please note: I haven't driven a 427 TT as of yet, so I don't know about all the extra torque down low that I'm missing out on!! Once I drive one, I may do something stupid!
Please note: I haven't driven a 427 TT as of yet, so I don't know about all the extra torque down low that I'm missing out on!! Once I drive one, I may do something stupid!
Yeah its kind of hard to justify when a FI 346cid can blister tires and push cars into the 9's. Not saying I would'nt own a TT or SC 427...just can't justify it. If anything I would probably just have a NA 427 and not have to f around with traction issues. No matter what the preference they are all kick ***.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,976
Likes: 527
From: Clouds Over California
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
Thanks man - this is why I never stepped up the plate for the 427 - with the power level that this car makes, I just can't justify it.......................yet!
Please note: I haven't driven a 427 TT as of yet, so I don't know about all the extra torque down low that I'm missing out on!! Once I drive one, I may do something stupid!
Please note: I haven't driven a 427 TT as of yet, so I don't know about all the extra torque down low that I'm missing out on!! Once I drive one, I may do something stupid!
Yeah its kind of hard to justify when a FI 346cid can blister tires and push cars into the 9's. Not saying I would'nt own a TT or SC 427...just can't justify it. If anything I would probably just have a NA 427 and not have to f around with traction issues. No matter what the preference they are all kick ***.
Originally Posted by Scubanme
Those seem like y reasonable and good numbers. Your car must run really well.
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; Dec 15, 2005 at 09:56 PM.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 348
Likes: 8
From: CT
Originally Posted by onfire
Engine dyno with GT35's was ~1400hp.
12psi rwhp was around 800
22psi rwhp was around 1038
http://www.lingenfelter.com/1038hp.BMP
All with a quiet smooth stock idle....LPE is awesome.
12psi rwhp was around 800
22psi rwhp was around 1038
http://www.lingenfelter.com/1038hp.BMP
All with a quiet smooth stock idle....LPE is awesome.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,863
Likes: 86
From: PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ
Wouldn't bash you dude! or LPE for that matter!
Thanks for not taking it wrong, I do recommend the readings though....I stuck a couple of books behind my ****ter...good for brushing up on things...and in case I run out of tp.
Thanks for not taking it wrong, I do recommend the readings though....I stuck a couple of books behind my ****ter...good for brushing up on things...and in case I run out of tp.
kevin get hp tuners hooked up and start loggin' youll know everything thats going on.
