I can’t remember which car uses Freon instead of air-to-water to cool charge air, but it is being done.

As far as running Freon through res. that would work but thermal mass is small. If as an example a few gallons where available then it would be worth it (8.34 lbs per gallon makes a difference). I think having fan on front intercooler/radiator would make a difference and thermal isolation will also put a dent into temperatures.


Mike

 

is there enoug room up front to fit a second rad???? the bigger the pre rad the better! that will get the heat away, but you need to get the heat IN the water in the first place!

for that i think you would have to double up on the chargcooler in the maggie! that could be dificult! hmmmmmm

how about water injection????? you can use normal tap water, or take form the washer botle. and i think you only need 10% water to every unit of fuel!

Chris.

 

I found where I can get a double core to replace the single core outside radiator for $235. IT has to be custom made. And I will have to make the end tanks and weld them onto the core. But I think that would help cool down the blower coolant. Right now I am just trying to get a new double core Radiator with the tranny cooler & EOC built in it. Dewitt told me they make them now, but another supplier that I get can a discount thru told me that Dewitt told them that they aren't in production. Anyway, that is my first step, cool the engine itself down. Then attack the cooling system on the blower, and try to insulate it from the motor heat as much as possible.
Anyone know how to clean all the sand pebbles out of the air condition condensor? I tried vaccum cleaner. But there is a lot in there. I may have to take it out and blow compressed air from the back side.

 

this idea was to use the AC system, not dumping freon into intercooler, the Idea is to recirc the freon thru the water res. instead of the inside of the car to get the water temp down to about 40deg. this would not lose freon just redirect it, expande it inside the water and then recover it the same way that the AC system does. this would allow the driver to disapate the heat soak issue in the intercooler after a hard run.


More Than Zero

 

I know Ford was experimenting with Freon and Eaton instead of A2W. I agree it has to be closed system (no leak and that’s what I was looking at).

Oh, as a side note the new Freon (can’t remember refrigerant number), can be used inside intake (through coil). The older one would create a toxic gas if leaked into intake and burned that’s why it has not been used in past.

Mike

 

still off the mark, no freon in the intake, use the freon to cool the water in the water res. to offset the heat soak issue not as a intercooler substute. there is not enough capacity in the ac system to work as an intercooler replacment. I was just thinking that this could be used to offset some of the heat soak. for example you make several hard runs which cause the intercooler water to heat up, then redirect the cars ac system to cool the water back down. the system would be reset after a few min. to cool the inside of the car instead.


More Than Zero

 

The Ford Lightening has an AC assisted Supercharger cooling system.

 

yes it does, and I think that it works about like I am sugesting in that it cools the intercooler water. It also has the electronics to allow a more agressive tune durring the time that it has cold intercooler water.

More Than Zero

 

That was on the concept truck..... sorry.

 

I use my window washer resivoir for an alky tank. It lasts a long time and is cheap and easy to refill.

 

The I/C core on the maggie is a joke, too bad there isn't more room for a decent sized core.

 

do you know that for a fact? A2W cores do not need to be as big as A2A, and I think that the I/C maggie is pulling down the IAT's. I would love bigger but I would not call it a joke. JMO


More Than Zero

 

take it back a step! right, the chargecoolers is fed by water from the res! so you need to get the temp in the res as low as poss! now you could do that by utilising the AC system, and this would work. but why not just get the water cooler before it gets to the res?????

what im getting at is all the water is doing is acting as a medium! it takes the energy from the intake and dumps it in the air coming into the engine bay! simple.

so if yo want to reduce inlet temps and get rid of heat soak you have to find a way to get more heat out of the water when it is being cooled by the air! so you need a bigger prerad!

now lets talk silly! if you used the rad (for the engine) as a pre rad, i dont think heat soak would be an issue! the water would spend ages in the flow of the incoming air and thus transfer most if not all of the heat to the air! not forgetting its incredably difficult to get the water back to ambeint because as the tempreture diffrence becomes lower, the transfer of energy becomes slower!

now thats taking it to extremes! but i think you need a much bigger pre rad and then heat soak isn't a problem as the pre rad is big enough to dissplace the heat.

and what is heat soak????? it the inability of the cooling system (for the charger) to keep temps down under hard use! its an inefficeny! the system is cr*p! there is no point in having a better chargecooler if the rad at the front of the car is unable to get rid of the heat!!!!!!!!! its simple!

thnaks and i hope i haven't offended anyone and i dont think the system is cr*p i was just getting the point across! sorrry

Chris.

 

oh and the bigger "outside" rad should (as a rule of thumb) give you about 50% more cooling! which should help a lot! can you go bigger on the frontal area? this is more efficent than "stacking" the cores!

Chris.

PS. how about a rad of a small car? is there enough room????

 

Anyone mount a larger pre-rad??? My friend has a CTS-V with an I/C Maggie and his I/C pre-rad is quite large...looks larger than the Vette's.
What about a water sprayer that would mist the rad, like the STI/Evos?
-ace

 

 

Try exploring ('exploring' because what I suggest may not be the best sol'n) a bigger liquid-ambient air radiator and a higher output liquid pump. That's the cheapest/simplest solution outside of small doses (small because nitrous itself destabilize combustion processes) nitrous.

By doing those two changes you will have cooler liquid going to the charge-air to liquid side. Cooler liquid flowing at higher rates will clearly cool the charge better based on:
Heat transfer rate = mass flow rate x delta T x specific heat capacity.

The higher output pump gives you more mass flow rate.
The bigger liquid to ambient air radiator gives you more delta T between the liquid and charge air aftercooler. "Delta T" is the temperature gradient that drives non-evaporative heat transfer so the more delta-T you have the higher the heat transfer rate for given area.
And specific heat capacity is pretty much what it is no matter what.

Unlike the weakest link argument one can pose for driveline strength (as an example)...here we have several degrees of freedom to increase thermal transport at the charge air to liquid heat exchanger w/o changing the liquid-charge air heat exchanger itself.

I recall gaining improvements by just upgrading to a custom pump for a friend's f-body with a Vortech aftercooled liquid-air system...even without changing the liquid to ambient air radiator.

Now if you really want to get exotic you can circulate liquid metal (not mercury of course) with compatible pumps of course. The pumping medium is easy to move, yet the the heat picked up quickly mixes about well and it can be dumped very quickly. There is a certain dimensionless number called Prandlt number (lower the better for this application) that quantifies this. Some research years ago by our gov't labs might have been done on such cooling of electronics. Here again we see the numerous degrees of freedom in the system one can play with on liquid-air cooling mechanisms to tweak/improve performance.

 

I believe that the BOSCH pumps that comes with the Maggie is one of the highest flowing pumps you will find. At least I can't find one better.
Here is the specs.
Part number 0 392 022 002


Nominal voltage
UN 12 V


Delivery
V 1200 dm3 h–1


Delivery pressure
p 0,3 bar


Direction of rotation
R


Type of duty
S 1


Degree of protection
IP 5 K 4*


Weight
1,0 kg


Part number
0 392 022 002

 

Cool info. Don't limit yourself to automotive because the friend of mine who replaced his Vortech aftercooler water pump replaced it with a bilge pump (thing was noisy...although there may have been quieter units).

Beauty with system mods like ambient air to liquid radiator changes and pump changes is it doesn't run out like NOS.

 

My thoughts for the outside intercooler-sprayer was with water, not NOS. The rally cars, STEvos, use water sprayers on timers or such(boost referenced activation) that spray a fine mist...like alkyinjection but not as fine...on the intercooler.
If one could run a sprayer to the intercooler, shouldn't the water spray/vapor pull heat from the intercooler...thereby raising the effectiveness of the existing core?

I plan on autoxing a maggied Z this summer and am doing my research on what to do to keep things cool. I'd like to run alky, but the rules are fuzzy on its use for SoloII. Other than that, the external intercooler water sprayer is the only option without changing the core.

And in regards to the core....that dual/stacked core sounds like it would at least help with transfer. Optimally, I think laying a larger core over the rad would be more effective...a smaller rad from a 4-banger should have the surface area to shed the heat.

OTOH, I don't know...
-ace