I just got my car finished from having the A4 swap done and decided I wanted a little more boost to make up for HP loss due to the new tranny when the motor blew a head gasket on the dyno. 12 psi is what the boost was when the gasket blew. The motor is a MTI 427, Darton sleeved, and supercharged. I called MTI about the gasket and they said they never recommend anything over eight pounds even though they built the motor for supercharged application and it made more than eight pounds in their shop. In fact they never said anything like that when my car was in their shop. I did a huge thread on the problems experienced with MTI. Do a search. Also while talking with David, at MTI, he expressed that they have quit using Darton sleeves due to problems. I called Darton and asked about boost and problems with their sleeves etc. Long story short. The rep at Darton tracked me down, through Xtreme Motorsports, where my car is now, and wanted to talk to me further. I called Darton and the president of the company got on the phone and indicated his dismay with the workmanship at MTI in installing their sleeves. In fact he told me, frankly, that he would not be comfortable if that block was in his car. His words were that he had zero confidence in the block in my car. The president of Darton offered to take my motor and give me a brand new block that they would prep and install my components and others that they felt would be up to their standards. No charge to me other than the removal and installation of the motor. They said they have replced other blocks with shoddy workmanship already. I know a few guys are going to tell me how great MTI is and how I'm full of crap. I wasn't lucky enough to have a quality experience. Anyway, I cannot think of many companies that would make the kind of offer that Darton made. These sleeves were designed with John Lingenfelter among others and are used in many applications seeing way more than 12 psi. It is amazing when a president of a company takes a hands on approach like what happened at Darton. I also want to say that the remarks I said about MTI are from my personal experiences and many people are probably happy with their services. To be honest, I am glad that I will have the piece of mind that my engine is properly prepared. I will report back once everything is done and give my experience with Darton after the motor is finished and back in my car.

 

Wow - that's the kind of customer service we like to hear about. You're not alone on the MTI front - I've heard of nothing positive regarding their Darton sleeved motors running high boost.

In other news - how do you like the A4?

Mark

 

To be honest I have not driven the car yet. I wanted it right, before I got it back. MTI is making it sound like Darton sleeves are the problem. Darton has indicated that MTI is not installing the sleeves properly. Darton wants my entire motor so they can see exactly what MTI did and how the sleeves look. I asked Darton first before I even posted this thread. I didn't want people coming out of the woodwork calling them. They said they have been quietly taking care of customers on this and they don't like their reputation smeared because of it.

 

Kudos to Darton! THAT is sweet customer service! Be sure to report how the Darton 427 goes with the increased boost once the new motor is installed!

 

I will. I have been a hot rodder for many years. It always seems that there is a vendor or dealer that brags about how great their product is only to talk badly about it a year later. When MTI started the sleeve thing they didn't do enough R&D and alienated customers. My problem is that they sold the Darton sleeved motors hard and then a year later they say they quit using them because of problems. Where does that leave customers that bought Darton motors from them? I would be worried everytime I heard a noise. You need to have confidence in your installer and engine builder. If they sell you parts this year, and then tell you those same parts are no good next year, then where does that leave you? My experience might be unique. I hope it is. I hope Darton opens up my motor and finds that the sleeves are perfect and installed correctly. If they are I will report that.

 

You might want talk to MikeZ06 or Arnel regarding MTI.

My Darton Block was originally supplied to me by A&A.

I know of some shops that put Felpro's/Or general cometic head gaskets on and not the Darton specific cometic head gaskets on cars and had some serious problems, blew the motors and then pointed their fingers at Darton.

As far as with any design, absolutely has to be done right. Darton does do aircraft sleeves and Top Fuel sleeves as well. Shows the reliability and the cylinder pressure they can withstand.

 

MIKEZO6 does not come up using search. What is Arnel's user name?

 

Arnel's forum name is "AVB".

Mark

 

MTIs reputation has really gone down the tubes.

I remember when they were considered to be one of the best, I don't think that is the case anymore.

Things change, people move on.... It has been a long time since I've heard a positive story about them.

 

Sorry, MikesZ06.
I forgot the "s." He is also a moderator at Z06Vette.com
You can PM there, but he will answer here.

 

Brent, FWIW - Xtreme has known about the Cometic/Darton specific head gaskets since the MID technology was released. So, I don't believe head gaskets were an issue in Jeff's case. When I was there we built one Darton MID sleeved (4.125) 382 all bore with an A&A D1SC (8 rib) kit. If my memory serves me correctly the motor put down 642/580rw at 14psi on a nice conservative tune. No leaks or head lifting... but I would not go any higher boost than that... unless there is data out that there that suggests the decks (whats left of them) can handle more. BTW, the block was prepped by LPE Decatur. This was about 2 years ago... but admittadly I am unaware of the status of the engine today.

Jeff,
Good to hear Darton is stepping up. Are they gonna do an LS2 dry sleeve 4.125 bore for ya... or replace exactly (MID) what you have if its bad? If you are going to maintain 427ci what kind of boost/numbers are you expecting out of that T trim? Just wondering how much more that 6-rib / jack shaft setup can deliver...
Also, if Darton is doing another block for ya... maybe ask them to slap in some 1/2" head studs . Hell, it would be worth it even if you had to pay for the studs and labor. And if you are looking for more power... IMO, recommend looking at fuel upgrades as I think you are close to the limits of your current setup...

Bill

 

I've heard more than a few horror stories about customer service from MTI - I would not deal with them having heard the various stories from independent sources. Good luck bro!

 

I Know Doug put down 22 psi. on his 4.125 bore, 427 daily driver (1,200 rwhp) F2 Blower. Of course bigger studs and special head sauce.
Like he wrote, a lot of it is the driver/maintenance.

I think most have stood at 14-16 PSI being the general safe max..

Yes, adequate fuel, meth, cool intake temps and oil/water cooling are your friends on big F/I.

 

My block is a C5R, however we have done several 427's with Darton sleeves with 12-15lbs of boost (Billy182 for instance) We have them done at Darton without a single problem with the sleeves. Although I am not a fan of Cometic gaskets. FYI, stay away from their new "infusion gaskets" we were dumb enough to be the guinny pigs for them. $450 down the drain with less than 10lbs of boost. Replaced them with stock 6L gaskets and have ran several mid 9's with the car since. Including making it to the semi finals of the Vette Doc's Pro 8 this morning with it.
Thats great customer service from Darton

 

That was my car qualifying and making it to the semi-finals of the pro-8. Thanks Doug, Mark, Chris and John. While I didn't run my best time the car ran fast and straight all day long.

I want to also reach out to a good buddy down south that may be hurting right now. Sorry for the mishap. Doug has been a gentlemen here but suffice it to say - get the rest of the MTI technology out of your setup and let the ECS boys take good care of you on a motor. I have mentioned a deal to Doug that could be good for everybody.

 

You're the lucky one.

 

Bill, I don't know if they are going to do the LS2 block. I have already inquired about the bigger stds. My car did 624hp and 614 tourque on 12 psi before it blew the gasket. That was 100 foot pounds more torque than with 10 psi. The 6 rib is a special unit made by DTE and I'm the first to use it on the street. It uses the LS2 water pump among other upgrades. Works perfect. I did the fuel system upgrade to a return system when Xtreme did the automatic tranny swap. I don't expect more than 12 psi. I just wanted to get close to where it was before I swapped to an automatic.

 

By the way, to qualify the head gasket issue. My car was fine at 10 psi until we hit 12. It had been dynoed several times at 10 and had no problems. Darton is concerned that a sleeve was not installed correctly and lifted. They also said that MTI had a habit of heating blocks to installed their sleeves and that is not recommended.

 

Wow Jeff, that's quite an ordeal...

I'm sure the Xtreme crew will take care of you, as they do good work over there and we're glad you're pleased with our Vortech belt-drive system. That's 7 cars they been successfully tested on that produced over 600-700 RWHP, over a 1 1/2 year time frame.

Let me know if you need any further assistance with it and I'm sure Chad will call w/ any questions also. Good luck with your project and do let us know how it fairs.


Best Regards,
Phil- DTE

 

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. My MTI engine has been running strong for 3.5 years and I've never had an issue with their customer service considering that I live on the other side of the world.

Good Luck