after thinking about it long and hard i came to the conclusion there doesn't seem to be anything special about the STS kit if you understand the ideas it's based off of. So i was wondering has anyone built there own "STS" turbo kit? or is there a competitor that builds equal and or better kits for less... $6900 is alot of money and considering what your working with i think it can be done for alot less.

 

If you got the stuff to fab things yourself there's no reason why you shouldn't give it a go. I plan on building a kit this winter for my 99frc. Check out www.turbomustangs.com/forums for some good diy info. I've also got a couple mustangs that I've turbo'd and theres some sharp guys there esp when it comes to diy.

 

I dont' have everything I'd need to fab with... which doesn't mean i can't get what I need... but i do have plenty of shops i can use to fab everything...

 

Good luck.

 

coming from you doesn't sound very promising... please advise. I don't plan on having it put together in a day or a week.. nor do I plan to have the parts tomorrow... I was kinda hoping to force myself to pay for it as I go so I don't just shove it on a CC... Also i think if researched and done correctly it could be done for far less. But i could be way wrong... hense why i posted here... You guys know best.. but i think many of you have deeper wallets than I.

 

No, it's not about deeper wallets, it's about innate talent. And by that, I am not disparaging your own skills, just making a observation.

You state that you do not fab stuff yourself, you farm it out. This suggests that others will be, in effect, building the kit for you.

If that is the case, it will be A> Much cheaper and B> Much less frustrating to just buy a genuine STS kit.

If you had a machine shop - or direct unlimited access to a machine shop, along with the requisite skills, talent, time and patience - I would say "go for it and please post lots of pics of your progress"

Let me put this a different way; if you were into superchargers - you might look at the ECS Paxton or the A&A Vortech kits and say to yourself "they are just a few brackets and a couple of tensioners" right??? Wrong.

What you are paying for - besides after sales support - is their R&D. The ECS & A&A kits bolt on and run effortlessly, flawlessly, without fanfare or issues for thousands of miles on stock engines. Same with the STS kit and most of the well designed TT kits.

That R&D is not cheap, nor is it easy, no is it fast. An example is the (soon to be released) APS TT kit. They have been testing their kit for months - refining, honing, getting all the kinks worked out....

And that's just testing. Who knows how long they spent on the initial R&D, the deep research and design that got them this far where they are almost ready to offer it to the public.

A Paxton or Vortech head unit is circa $2000 retail. Some people look at that and think "why should I pay $5k+ or $6k+ for something that costs $2k?" But what about the "ancillary" parts? The J-Tube, BOV, FMIC, tensioners, routing, alignment, relocation, oiling etc.. etc. etc. etc. etc.

And what about the after sales service? The guarantee (for want of a better word) and the reliability?

Building a kit is much more than buying two Garrett turbos and some piping, throwing it together and seeing how it works.

I, personally, do not have the skill, talent, will, know how, knowledge - call it whatever you like - but I know my limitations, and I do not have the ability to build a forced induction kit from scratch. I tried it in the 80s and the results were very mixed. I have since learned my limitations.

So, like I said - "Good luck". I meant it with absolutely no heat.

EG

 

And I bet you told all the younger kids " there was no Santa too"

 

If you can truely build it yourself. I agree it would pretty straight forward.

I mean cut the bends and weld it yourself.

If you have to farm out to a shop anything you save if going to eaten up with their labor for making something that is one off.

The reason that there are not other shops "making the same thing cheaper" is that supposedly Rick Squires and STS hold a patent on this rear mount turbo system. Now if you make one for yourself... I would not be worried about it. If another shop started making them for sale, I am sure something would be done about it.

 

 

I just saw two F/I kits being installed side by side. One was more expensive than the other by roughly $2K but are marketed with comparable performance. Being there in person, observing the kits parts, the fit, and the performance - I'm 1000% convinced you get what you pay for. If you want a low boost street only application it can be done with more price sensitivity. If you want high performance - then you need to invest in what it takes and then you need to look at which kits have delivered the performance not just the dynos and be realistic that you will need more than the base kit. Just my $0.02.

 

aww alan are you pickin on my car cuz its in pieces??

now tell them to get blue off teh dyno an let my lil wussmobile on there...

 

Although I did not really research patent(s)... I believe it is mostly lubrication and return pump, so that's not that bad. Or spec a different scavenge pump or better yet do a self contained system.

As far as DIY this is the simplest application for C5 IMO. With that said look at or do some searches on this forum and learn/guesstimate A/R ratio... it's not rocket science.

Read up on heat retention and other details, study thermodynamics and take it from there. Don't fall into bigger is better mindset because with rear mount it will hurt you much worse then front mount.

If your competent at welding/bending/fabrication consider it a mild challenge.

Good luck,
Mike

 

I can attest to ECS' quality.

 

So true - extensive R and D work is extremely expensive as is producing high quality production tooling for a twin turbo application. The real cost from start to finish of a high quality engineered twin turbo system is in the order of $400 to $500k (not nickel/dime) so you can see that's a huge investment that needs to be amortized over many future sales of the FI product.

Once the extensive testing program is complete you can expect a reliable twin turbo system that produces high power and torque combined with high component durability.

Peter

 

You won't save any money farming it out and building your own kit. Especially if you have to have something done two or three times because something doesn't fit right.
On the other hand if you are a fabricator, or have the experience and the equipment, then you might save some money. But you also have to look at your R&D time as an investment too.
The exhaust part is simple, and the charge tube probably isn't that difficult. I think your biggest problem will be the oiling of the system in the rear. Even STS has or had problems with this. And I am sure they have made huge R&D investments into that area.
You should price all the component and material first, then see what you have to work with to save anything. But I think you are going to open up a can of worms trying to do it yourself. And in the end, you will probably wish you just bought a kit that someone else has did the painstaking learing curve for you.

 

All I can say is build it for fun, not to save $$$. Lots of trial and error and potential damage to the engine or turbos if done incorrectly would make it not worth it to me. You're better off using the time getting a 2nd part time job to make up the cost difference between a DIY kit vs. a kit already R&D'd with proven results.

But building your own kit would be fun no doubt if you have the skills though. Good luck if you go that route!

 

I say go for it. If I had the time and resources, I would go that route.

 

I'm sorry, but this is the "import want to be" post I have ever seen on this forum. Of course after Rick spent hours upon hours to design the kit it is easier to copy it afterwards. Sell your Vette, buy a Honda, and copy one of those electric S/C kits for it. Then you can save even more money.

 

I would think you could save a fortune building a rear mount turbo setup if you could do your own fab work. I don't see anything about the STS kit that would justify a price of $7,000. Maybe for $3,500 - $4,000, but $7,000 I would expect a more traditional package. Just my .02.

 

I fully agree with Peter (APS) & Doug (ESC).

I can tell you for a fact, that there is HUGE amount effort (time, R&D, Q&A, capital) to develop well a working kit vs. something that tossed on the market on your dime and pain and suffering.

The margin is simply not that high for any manufactuer, hence many rush to market to early. Someone that is going to do it one off, you are going to have your hands full over years. There is some serious talent here, but they always start with something.

How were you going to make the rear mount wiring harness?
STS does a have rear mount patent.
STS does have patent on its oil system.
The STS Corvette instructions have a 2004 copyright.