It means that a stock GTO makes 330 - 340 whp, what don't you understand about that?

The graph shows over 712 rwhp with 762 rwtq.

Peter

 

You completely missed my question.

Your graph was done with an STD correction factor NOT SAE.

I can see what the graph shows but it is a little misleading compared to what people normally see.

The difference should be about 5%.. that was my original question.

So your 712 would be about 676 at 16 psi, SAE corrected.

 

You asked what a stock GTO makes and I told you, how did I miss the question?


I don't see any misleading information..............in my experience you never see the same numbers from dyno to dyno and from what I'm told a stock GTO produces around 330 to 340 whp on the same dyno as the 712 rwhp was measured. I put far more faith in actual engine dyno numbers though dyno jets tire dynos seem to be the most popular measuring tool in the US.

Peter

 

I never asked what a GTO makes.

I asked why the graph was posted in STD... oh well.

After seeing these results I am curious to see what your C5 kit will be able to make.

 

To add to this that GTO is not completely stock bottom.. Mods are 72cc Patriot stage II heads, LPE GT2-3 cam, 60 injectors, custom twin fuel pumps with custom plumbing and two 4-bar boost referenced regulators, Testralia clutch,ARP head studs.

 

Maybe you could have been clearer with your question, I don't follow the American language at times, only real english..............lol.

I'm very confident that we will see the C5 twin turbo system produce around 850 rwhp once guys get their engine combination and tuning well sorted.

Peter

 

We will see in time.

Also..since this is an APS v TTiX kit thread... I am 100% sure that the X kit will make over 850 to the wheels...

 

I'm sure we will................do you have some vested interest in TTI?

Peter

 

With lots of power under the curve.

 

Vested interest, no. They are very good to me and I have installed more than a few of their kits. Beyond that I like the competition as much as anyone. There is more than enough to go around.

I just find it curious that a GTO making 675-712 HP on 16 psi is so impressive to everyone. The thread WAS/IS about comparing the two kits. So I think it is fair that I questioned the information that was posted. There is only speculation at this point on what the kit will make on an all out effort.

EDIT.. for the record, my 346 made 750/710 on just 14 psi.. without a spike in AFR to 14+

 

Bring your car to Norwalk... I will be happy to show you how much power under the curve is available.

 

That's fine...............just seems to me that you're trying to put down the GTO's power (I think that power is a fine effort given the relatively basic engine combination and fuel octane, no meth etc, etc) whilst at the same time saying how great the TTI system is, that's why I asked if you have some involvement with TTI................just trying to see what your motive is behind your comments.

I think the GTO's power and torque curve is awesome given the low fuel octane and running through stock mufflers and this GTO twin turbo system is running much smaller turbos than what we package in the C5 twin turbo system. I'm quite confident that the C5 twin turbo system will produce some very nice power and torque numbers once the guys have had a chance to get their cars/engines fully developed. It's only very early days for our C5 twin turbo system.

You tuning guru...............am I meant to be impressed with your air fuel ratio not spiking to 14 :1 ..............lol.

Peter

 

Alright guys calm down everyone first off I never even noticed the graph being in STD so no biggie deduct the 5% the telephone # is on the dyno sheet I am sure you can call Gill and he can explain why the #s are std. There was no intent of hiding info since all the info was posted on LS1GTO.com but for the record I called him and he converted it on the dyno and its 700.6hp and 750tq SAE.

This is on a 05 LS2 with 72cc patriot heads LPE GT2-3 cam and head studs, bone stock rotating assembly and through very restrictive stock mufflers with 3 inch piping leading to the mufflers. The two airfuel spikes were the signal being lost to the dyno loose connection.

While I normally run 1 can of Torco and 91 with 13 to 14psi of boost all the time I was running 6 gallons of 100 mixed with 91 about 9gallons.

What people need to realize is my turbos are rated at about 40 to 44lb of airflow and T25 flanges compared to the newer APS C5 kit of 50lbs of airflow and T3 flanges. Peter I believe posted the graph to show a little potential of the newer C5 kit. I also believe like he stated there is a litle langauge barrier a stock bottom end is a rotating assembly to him not a complete longblock, a stock engine is just that bone stock.

For the record the new GTO kits with the same turbos as the C5 kit have all so far made approx 575 to 600 at about 8 to 9 psi. Obviously I have smaller turbos and therefore run more boost to make up for the airflow difference along with the restrictive mufflers.

Again I think the whole point of Peters post was to just show some results even if on a GTO. Now if some of you guys would get busy tuning I am certain the vette kits will make some nice #s as well but obviously a forged built motor on 16psi is recomended. I have all the pieces at home to build a forged engine thats why I am pushing mine a little harder than most. Hope this clarifys things guys.

You know its pretty amazing how some of the egos on this board are so big that 675 to 700rwhp is unimpressive on a daily driven vehicle.

Les

 

Well, it looks like both Turbo kits are really good from all the posts I've read. Since I am only shooting for the 500-550rwhp range in a REAL stock LS6, either sounds like it will work great without working real hard.

(has crane cam and 918 valve springs, but I'm putting the stock cam back in)

I was just hoping to hit the 500+ mark and do it with killed off spark and 91 octane.

How is the oil fed to the turbos in these kits and returned to the engine?


Is there any advantage or disadvantage to a single or twin intercoolers? I'm guessing the single blocks the radiator??? But is this significant?

How good is tech support from these places? I'm pretty good at working on things, but occassionally might want to talk to someone

Is there a warranty of any type on the turbos for the kits?

 

TTI uses a gravity feed oil return, APS uses a scavenge pump, the pump APS specs is a very high qaulity unit.

As far as the intercoolers are conmcerned they both will get the job done, I live in the desert so I feel its best to not block the airflow to radiator but both styles will work well.

TTI obviously has more people currently on board but 2 years ago there was really no support, I am certain as soon as APS gets it feet wet they will have even more tech support. But I do know this Peter answers each and every email he recieives as fast as possible he is a very busy guy.

As far as warranty I will let them answer that.

Les

 

Would it be safe to say that one kit has a proven track record in it's current form?

 

True, just like ported/polished LS6 castings had when AFR introduced their heads.

 

I don't have a reason to believe that the APS kit will fail at the track -- but I think the point is that until it's proven, it's an unknown. In your example, an unproven product came out and rocked the house. Think back to the old Procharger days (the original kit) where an unproven/unknown caused so many people so many different issues.

Again, I think the APS kit will do just fine... but it's still an unknown.

I am anxious to see more dyno numbers come in and perhaps more importantly track numbers.

 

Well if you do some research you would find that LS6 heads are still da shiznit in the right hands.

 

your point being....? nobody is saying the ttix isn't a good kit. just like i never said ls6 heads weren't nice heads.