Forged Internals
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,715
Likes: 0
From: Tinker till it blows... then back it off a notch, maybe!!
St. Jude Donor '08
You may be able to get a decent deal from callies...one of their speed packs, if you want to go stroked.
Includes crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings and all nicely balanced...just add a honed block and instant 383 or 402
Includes crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings and all nicely balanced...just add a honed block and instant 383 or 402
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: Sherman Oaks California
Where can i get that from? who sells it and can i go directly to them
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 26,794
Likes: 614
From: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
St. Jude Donor '06
For stock cubes 99% of the folks reuse the stock crank which is super strong and hardly ever hear of one failing.
My forged LS6 347 is being finished as we speak and I am going with Wiesco Blower pistons (-11cc/arguably some of the best boost LS1 boost pistons) off the shelf, and you can buy direclty from Wiseco, and Callies Comp Star 2000 Rods with ARP rod bolts (which I also believe you can buy directly from Callies.).
Also, Diamond has an off the shelf -8.6 cc blower piston in stock usually which you can buy direct from Diamond Pistons (which is another excellent choice).
My forged LS6 347 is being finished as we speak and I am going with Wiesco Blower pistons (-11cc/arguably some of the best boost LS1 boost pistons) off the shelf, and you can buy direclty from Wiseco, and Callies Comp Star 2000 Rods with ARP rod bolts (which I also believe you can buy directly from Callies.).
Also, Diamond has an off the shelf -8.6 cc blower piston in stock usually which you can buy direct from Diamond Pistons (which is another excellent choice).
Last edited by Mopar Jimmy; Dec 8, 2007 at 11:10 PM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,876
Likes: 8
From: Las Vegas NV
St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
That long huh.....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,060
Likes: 3
From: Dublin CA
There's a little more to the parts selection than a poll. You might want to buy a ready-to-pickup shortblock from A&A or other nearby vendor.
Warranty - Mail order shortblocks are not warrantied after you install it. They only warranty manufacturing defects, not the selection of the part quality, their recommendations, or their technical solution. If they sell you the wrong parts for the application, they'll be dismissive towards you, especially if you're just a voice on the phone or a message in email.
Piston quench area - To help prevent detonation you'll need a quench area (the flat area of the heads that goes against the flat area of the piston). To lower the compression ratio, you'll need reverse dome which is an indent that mirrors the combustion chamber in the head. However if you plan to demod and sell your car later, flat top pistons are better with larger chamber cylinder heads. This way you can remove the FI setup and swap heads to restore compression to stock. Don't get full dish pistons as you lose the quench area and lose structural support around the weak valve relief area.
Piston alloy (wiki) - Forged pistons are available in two alloys - 2618 and 4030. Silicon is added to reduce expansion which reduces cold-start piston knock, but it also makes the piston fragile and more prone to break in high load environments. Stock hypereutectic (meaning more than 12% silicon) pistons have 18% silicon and most forged pistons are made of 2618 alloy, which has zero to 2% silicon. Don't get 4030 alloy has 11-14% silicon.
Top ring down space - The ring land area is the most fragile part of the piston, especially near the valve reliefs. The distance between the top ring land groove and the valve relief in some cases is less than 1/8". Moving the top ring groove down in a custom piston strengthens the top edge of the piston. Diesel pistons have a huge top ring down space for strength because detonation starts the power stroke. Moving the top ring down increases HC emissions since it increases the unburnt 'dead area'. It also moves the oil ring into the piston pin space which reduces oil scraping effectiveness (more smog).
Coatings - Most forged pistons are uncoated. Options are to add anti-friction/anti-scuffing coatings on the skirt, oil-shedding coating underneath, ring groove anodizing, and thermal ceramic coatings on the top. Piston manufacturers (JE) say that thermal coatings tend to flake off (due to thermal expansion) and are not recommended for FI or endurance racing.
Rings - What comes with the pistons is matched to the application. I don't know much about rings options - Iron, moly, stainless, tool-steel, coatings, gapless, thickness - it depends on your engine builder and parts selected (groove size, etc). When file-fitting rings remember that iron rings file flat, filing steel rings builds an edge in the direction you file. Thinner rings reduce friction but require stronger (harder) material. Remember that tool steel or stainless top rings wear longer but are also harder on the sleeve walls.
Piston Pin - Stock piston pin is pressed in and .945", aftermarket is .927" and full floating, held in place by spiral locks on both sides of the piston.
H-beam vs. I-beam rods - Aftermarket rods haven't broken on their own in an LS application (not that I've found). H-rods are less expensive than I-beam rods, and LS7 titanium rods are made as thin and light as possible for a stock application and shouldn't be used for FI.
Rod length - Stock rod length is 6.100". The 6.125" rods are made in higher volume (less expensive) and provide a slightly straighter angle against the crank on the power stroke (more torque). The pistons you buy are specific for the rod length.
Aftermarket cranks - The only reason to use an aftermarket crank is to increase stroke. Stock cranks are strong enough for high horsepower racing applications. Some aftermarket cranks are made in China, some are made in the U.S.A., you might want to take origin and where you're sending money into consideration.
Studs - Stock main/head bolts are TTY (Torque to Yield) which are one time use only. Most folk use ARP studs, and option for the 12-point nuts which are less likely to round out when you're torquing the nuts down. Early gen motors have long head studs, late gen motors have short head studs.
Billet Caps - Never seen stock ones break
Bearing material - Don't know enough here to comment
That's pretty much all I can add. Others may add more detail or correct the list above.
Warranty - Mail order shortblocks are not warrantied after you install it. They only warranty manufacturing defects, not the selection of the part quality, their recommendations, or their technical solution. If they sell you the wrong parts for the application, they'll be dismissive towards you, especially if you're just a voice on the phone or a message in email.
Piston quench area - To help prevent detonation you'll need a quench area (the flat area of the heads that goes against the flat area of the piston). To lower the compression ratio, you'll need reverse dome which is an indent that mirrors the combustion chamber in the head. However if you plan to demod and sell your car later, flat top pistons are better with larger chamber cylinder heads. This way you can remove the FI setup and swap heads to restore compression to stock. Don't get full dish pistons as you lose the quench area and lose structural support around the weak valve relief area.
Piston alloy (wiki) - Forged pistons are available in two alloys - 2618 and 4030. Silicon is added to reduce expansion which reduces cold-start piston knock, but it also makes the piston fragile and more prone to break in high load environments. Stock hypereutectic (meaning more than 12% silicon) pistons have 18% silicon and most forged pistons are made of 2618 alloy, which has zero to 2% silicon. Don't get 4030 alloy has 11-14% silicon.
Top ring down space - The ring land area is the most fragile part of the piston, especially near the valve reliefs. The distance between the top ring land groove and the valve relief in some cases is less than 1/8". Moving the top ring groove down in a custom piston strengthens the top edge of the piston. Diesel pistons have a huge top ring down space for strength because detonation starts the power stroke. Moving the top ring down increases HC emissions since it increases the unburnt 'dead area'. It also moves the oil ring into the piston pin space which reduces oil scraping effectiveness (more smog).
Coatings - Most forged pistons are uncoated. Options are to add anti-friction/anti-scuffing coatings on the skirt, oil-shedding coating underneath, ring groove anodizing, and thermal ceramic coatings on the top. Piston manufacturers (JE) say that thermal coatings tend to flake off (due to thermal expansion) and are not recommended for FI or endurance racing.
Rings - What comes with the pistons is matched to the application. I don't know much about rings options - Iron, moly, stainless, tool-steel, coatings, gapless, thickness - it depends on your engine builder and parts selected (groove size, etc). When file-fitting rings remember that iron rings file flat, filing steel rings builds an edge in the direction you file. Thinner rings reduce friction but require stronger (harder) material. Remember that tool steel or stainless top rings wear longer but are also harder on the sleeve walls.
Piston Pin - Stock piston pin is pressed in and .945", aftermarket is .927" and full floating, held in place by spiral locks on both sides of the piston.
H-beam vs. I-beam rods - Aftermarket rods haven't broken on their own in an LS application (not that I've found). H-rods are less expensive than I-beam rods, and LS7 titanium rods are made as thin and light as possible for a stock application and shouldn't be used for FI.
Rod length - Stock rod length is 6.100". The 6.125" rods are made in higher volume (less expensive) and provide a slightly straighter angle against the crank on the power stroke (more torque). The pistons you buy are specific for the rod length.
Aftermarket cranks - The only reason to use an aftermarket crank is to increase stroke. Stock cranks are strong enough for high horsepower racing applications. Some aftermarket cranks are made in China, some are made in the U.S.A., you might want to take origin and where you're sending money into consideration.
Studs - Stock main/head bolts are TTY (Torque to Yield) which are one time use only. Most folk use ARP studs, and option for the 12-point nuts which are less likely to round out when you're torquing the nuts down. Early gen motors have long head studs, late gen motors have short head studs.
Billet Caps - Never seen stock ones break
Bearing material - Don't know enough here to comment
That's pretty much all I can add. Others may add more detail or correct the list above.
Last edited by blu00rdstr; Dec 9, 2007 at 03:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: Sherman Oaks California
There's a little more to the parts selection than a poll. You might want to buy a ready-to-pickup shortblock from A&A or other nearby vendor.
Warranty - Mail order shortblocks are not warrantied after you install it. They only warranty manufacturing defects, not the selection of the part quality, their recommendations, or their technical solution. If they sell you the wrong parts for the application, they'll be dismissive towards you, especially if you're just a voice on the phone or a message in email.
Piston quench area - To help prevent detonation you'll need a quench area (the flat area of the heads that goes against the flat area of the piston). To lower the compression ratio, you'll need reverse dome which is an indent that mirrors the combustion chamber in the head. However if you plan to demod and sell your car later, flat top pistons are better with larger chamber cylinder heads. This way you can remove the FI setup and swap heads to restore compression to stock. Don't get full dish pistons as you lose the quench area and lose structural support around the weak valve relief area.
Piston alloy (wiki) - Forged pistons are available in two alloys - 2618 and 4030. Silicon is added to reduce expansion which reduces cold-start piston knock, but it also makes the piston fragile and more prone to break in high load environments. Stock hypereutectic (meaning more than 12% silicon) pistons have 18% silicon and most forged pistons are made of 2618 alloy, which has zero to 2% silicon. Don't get 4030 alloy has 11-14% silicon.
Top ring down space - The ring land area is the most fragile part of the piston, especially near the valve reliefs. The distance between the top ring land groove and the valve relief in some cases is less than 1/8". Moving the top ring groove down in a custom piston strengthens the top edge of the piston. Diesel pistons have a huge top ring down space for strength because detonation starts the power stroke. Moving the top ring down increases HC emissions since it increases the unburnt 'dead area'. It also moves the oil ring into the piston pin space which reduces oil scraping effectiveness (more smog).
Coatings - Most forged pistons are uncoated. Options are to add anti-friction/anti-scuffing coatings on the skirt, oil-shedding coating underneath, ring groove anodizing, and thermal ceramic coatings on the top. Piston manufacturers (JE) say that thermal coatings tend to flake off (due to thermal expansion) and are not recommended for FI or endurance racing.
Rings - What comes with the pistons is matched to the application. I don't know much about rings options - Iron, moly, stainless, tool-steel, coatings, gapless, thickness - it depends on your engine builder and parts selected (groove size, etc). When file-fitting rings remember that iron rings file flat, filing steel rings builds an edge in the direction you file. Thinner rings reduce friction but require stronger (harder) material. Remember that tool steel or stainless top rings wear longer but are also harder on the sleeve walls.
Piston Pin - Stock piston pin is pressed in and .945", aftermarket is .927" and full floating, held in place by spiral locks on both sides of the piston.
H-beam vs. I-beam rods - Aftermarket rods haven't broken on their own in an LS application (not that I've found). H-rods are less expensive than I-beam rods, and LS7 titanium rods are made as thin and light as possible for a stock application and shouldn't be used for FI.
Rod length - Stock rod length is 6.100". The 6.125" rods are made in higher volume (less expensive) and provide a slightly straighter angle against the crank on the power stroke (more torque). The pistons you buy are specific for the rod length.
Aftermarket cranks - The only reason to use an aftermarket crank is to increase stroke. Stock cranks are strong enough for high horsepower racing applications. Some aftermarket cranks are made in China, some are made in the U.S.A., you might want to take origin and where you're sending money into consideration.
Studs - Stock main/head bolts are TTY (Torque to Yield) which are one time use only. Most folk use ARP studs, and option for the 12-point nuts which are less likely to round out when you're torquing the nuts down. Early gen motors have long head studs, late gen motors have short head studs.
Billet Caps - Never seen stock ones break
Bearing material - Don't know enough here to comment
That's pretty much all I can add. Others may add more detail or correct the list above.
Warranty - Mail order shortblocks are not warrantied after you install it. They only warranty manufacturing defects, not the selection of the part quality, their recommendations, or their technical solution. If they sell you the wrong parts for the application, they'll be dismissive towards you, especially if you're just a voice on the phone or a message in email.
Piston quench area - To help prevent detonation you'll need a quench area (the flat area of the heads that goes against the flat area of the piston). To lower the compression ratio, you'll need reverse dome which is an indent that mirrors the combustion chamber in the head. However if you plan to demod and sell your car later, flat top pistons are better with larger chamber cylinder heads. This way you can remove the FI setup and swap heads to restore compression to stock. Don't get full dish pistons as you lose the quench area and lose structural support around the weak valve relief area.
Piston alloy (wiki) - Forged pistons are available in two alloys - 2618 and 4030. Silicon is added to reduce expansion which reduces cold-start piston knock, but it also makes the piston fragile and more prone to break in high load environments. Stock hypereutectic (meaning more than 12% silicon) pistons have 18% silicon and most forged pistons are made of 2618 alloy, which has zero to 2% silicon. Don't get 4030 alloy has 11-14% silicon.
Top ring down space - The ring land area is the most fragile part of the piston, especially near the valve reliefs. The distance between the top ring land groove and the valve relief in some cases is less than 1/8". Moving the top ring groove down in a custom piston strengthens the top edge of the piston. Diesel pistons have a huge top ring down space for strength because detonation starts the power stroke. Moving the top ring down increases HC emissions since it increases the unburnt 'dead area'. It also moves the oil ring into the piston pin space which reduces oil scraping effectiveness (more smog).
Coatings - Most forged pistons are uncoated. Options are to add anti-friction/anti-scuffing coatings on the skirt, oil-shedding coating underneath, ring groove anodizing, and thermal ceramic coatings on the top. Piston manufacturers (JE) say that thermal coatings tend to flake off (due to thermal expansion) and are not recommended for FI or endurance racing.
Rings - What comes with the pistons is matched to the application. I don't know much about rings options - Iron, moly, stainless, tool-steel, coatings, gapless, thickness - it depends on your engine builder and parts selected (groove size, etc). When file-fitting rings remember that iron rings file flat, filing steel rings builds an edge in the direction you file. Thinner rings reduce friction but require stronger (harder) material. Remember that tool steel or stainless top rings wear longer but are also harder on the sleeve walls.
Piston Pin - Stock piston pin is pressed in and .945", aftermarket is .927" and full floating, held in place by spiral locks on both sides of the piston.
H-beam vs. I-beam rods - Aftermarket rods haven't broken on their own in an LS application (not that I've found). H-rods are less expensive than I-beam rods, and LS7 titanium rods are made as thin and light as possible for a stock application and shouldn't be used for FI.
Rod length - Stock rod length is 6.100". The 6.125" rods are made in higher volume (less expensive) and provide a slightly straighter angle against the crank on the power stroke (more torque). The pistons you buy are specific for the rod length.
Aftermarket cranks - The only reason to use an aftermarket crank is to increase stroke. Stock cranks are strong enough for high horsepower racing applications. Some aftermarket cranks are made in China, some are made in the U.S.A., you might want to take origin and where you're sending money into consideration.
Studs - Stock main/head bolts are TTY (Torque to Yield) which are one time use only. Most folk use ARP studs, and option for the 12-point nuts which are less likely to round out when you're torquing the nuts down. Early gen motors have long head studs, late gen motors have short head studs.
Billet Caps - Never seen stock ones break
Bearing material - Don't know enough here to comment
That's pretty much all I can add. Others may add more detail or correct the list above.
Thank you Sir ,
That was alot of info that was well detailed thank you for your time and your input