Thanks for posting that Shawn, I swear I think I'm going to type up something and just save it in my computer for the "centri's have no low end" threads. That way I can just copy and paste each time.



I drive and have tuned every type of FI amaginable, I'll tell you why I have put all my efforts towards centrifigals. When you make a roots or twin screw type blower very high hp, I have found that it makes the car very annoying to drive. The best way I can discribe it is like a car that is way over geared.

What happens is that you do not have a comfortable cruising zone on your gas pedal anymore, when you have 700 ftlbs of torque at 2000 rpm every 1/16" on your gas pedal is 100lbs. Now when you go threw that bumpy intersection the car is jerking back n forth from the tiny movement of your foot.

Then that leads to why in the world would you want to make that much torque at that low of an RPM? It puts trumendous stress on the engine due to the low rpm and load which will shorten the life of it rather quickly, look at how quick some of the high hp twin screws went threw engines on this board. I want that torque availible, just not at that low of an rpm.

The centrifigal gives you the hp needed to run the great times, but retains a nice driving street car even at 1000+hp. It's the best of both worlds.

Now compaired it to a TT, yes TT's are great, but for me lack of knowing exactly when it will spool and the lack of consistancy of boost x rpm x throttle posision ruins it for me. I like to kid myself and think I'm an above average driver, but I never feel completly in tune with a TT car because of that, it doesn't always do the same thing and if you are in tune with the car enough to feel that regularly it gets annoying IMO. Plus the torque spikes of a TT makes it very difficult to plant that power on the street, then when it spins you lose your load and there goes the boost, you give it more gas to compensate and then it spikes again.

Centrifigals are always the same boost x rpm x throttle posision, that makes the car much easier to learn and keep the power to the ground. The belt issue's have been basically eliminated, so the chance of problems are the same with any FI at this point, all rare.

These are just my opinions, some might think they are biased, but I could have just of easily of been East Coast turbocharging etc. The track times show our centri's leading the way at the most reasonable cost, and fast track times mean a fast street car, period.

hope that helps.

 

Not trying to steal the thread, but I'm also interested in other S/C choices. What about:

1. Maggie 122 - will it fit the LS-1/6 and the C-5?
2. New four-rotor Maggie (TVS-2300?)?

Thanks, Gordon

 

Doug, Very nice write-up!!!

 

ECS-all the way! Best engineered kit on the market. Now you can pick between a Procharger or Novi head unit-simply awesome!

 

Right on! A cogent summary of the FI trade offs. Same thought process I went through. Thanks

 

The linear delivery of the centrifugals is so much more manageable at very high power levels. All the talk about more low rpm torque is really ignorant of the fact that centris can spin the tires at any rpm in the low gears....so why would more be better....just makes things harder to control and ultimately a slower car on the street.

 

Excellent points made above. For higher boost applications (12 lbs+) the centrif provide superior street drivability, Ľ mile perf and low stress on drive train. I’m sympathetic towards ECS’s point of view here, since I drive this type set up and love it.

For folks who want to stay under $10,000/lower budget (8-9 lbs boost/475-550 rwhp/no forged bot) the Roots/Twin screws do offer a interesting alt which will provide a bottom end not unlike to our high boost centrifs and aren’t really a handful on the street. Personally, if I had to chose between a 500 rwhp twin screw or a centrif I might go with the former to get the low end, which the later has a tough time matching. On the other hand, my actual car has a forged bottom and I wanted to generated big hp; my choice was just the opposite.

Also for many hood preference comes in to play. Those who don’t want to mess with a high rise hood (advantage: centrifs) other folks who like the bling factor of a custom hood (advantage: roots/twin screw).

No right and wrong here; different strokes for different folks.
PS. Thanks to ECS for some great parts and advice on my build last year. Proud owner of their meth kit, fuel system and OD pulley.

 

I'm looking forward to see your road race monster in completion.

 

Thanks. I'm having a riot building it.

 

Thanks for the insight....

I am a several months away from pulling the trigger on a SC and am torn between the Kenne Bell and the ProCharger. I want a CARB certified setup and am waiting to see if/when KB gets their certification.

I have read almost all these threads on "which Supercharger" with a lot of experiences, opinions and "my set up is the best" posts. I've read posts from very knowledgeable and experienced people, but I never read anything that I would consider a good "Guide to selecting a Supercharger."

As I read Doug's excellent response, in the back of my mind I kept thinking- "I don't want a 700 ft lb monster, just a stock bottom, 7lb boost, 450-500 HP setup".

I was wondering how/if Doug's post related to all SC setups or just those with high HP. Then I came across your response.........

Between the two of you, those are the two most informative posts about the "which Supercharger" question I've read in my entire time on this forum.

Thank you both......

Those two posts should be cut and pasted on every thread of this type

 

Warning: Just about everyone starts out saying that . Then after awhile we find ourselves upgrading again and again, this is the most expensive way to do it. One nice thing about the ESC Novi 2000 kit is that it scales up to higher power levels for very little extra money (retains the same head unit). Of course once you're over about 550-600 RWHP and want reliability, you're into some serious dough (forged motor, fuel system, power train).

The moral of the story: Power is addictive - try to define what you ultimately want up front and then chose the design that will eventually get you there.

Good luck!

 

Thanks. I've had the pleasure to work with Doug on getting SC advice(& the ECS components listed above) and Bob at EPP who did the engine/drive train work for my street/track car and is working with me on my track only car project this winter. Both those guys have a ton of experience and I would recommend you speak with them to help pin down your choice. They not only have PHD's in building fast cars but are great guys. Good luck which ever choice you make.

 

Thanks for the warning.... That sentiment is definitely a common warning throughout many of these threads..... and I can see the wisdom in getting a system that allows you to grow

I am hoping that I won't fall prey to those urges, as my wallet severely limits my addiction.....

We will see....

 

Thanks Tom, I appreciate the compliments. Corvettes are light enough, I simply can't imagine needing anymore torque. Take the September C5 on this years ProCharger calendar. We built this car many years ago at my old shop, and it has the old bracket assembly. It is an automatic and has a 2800-3000 stall converter. This car is a riot to drive, and is very affordable!
Here is a link to it. http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/hotCars.php?car=72

We've had a lot of positive displacement types (roots style) on my dyno, and they don' make good back to back runs. Heat rises, the blower get hot and the power falls off. At a drag strip when getting down to the final rounds, back to back runs are often encountered. Just something to think about. Bob

 

To the original poster and anyone else looking to go FI, since each system has its own strong/weak areas, IMO the only way to choose the right power adder for YOU, is to find some guys/gals in your area who run the various set-ups you are interested in and ask for a ride!

All of mentioned power adders make power differently (ie:different rpm ranges, some make more tq, some more hp, etc,) a ride will give you a first hand feel for where/how each pulls (if possible ask for multiple rides and watch the tach/boost gauge to see where boost develops,etc) from this you can gain a better feel for which system best suits YOUR type of needs/driving style.

I think you`ll find most folks with FI would be more than happy to oblige you with a ride and some individuals and tuners may even let you test drive their set-up.

Good luck, Rick

P.S. One thing I almost never see mentioned, how strong does any given system pull in part throttle situations, this is very important on a street car and should be a major consideration in you decision.

 

Thanks for all the great post.
I'm looking at the Kenne Bell Supercharger for a few reasons let me know what you all think.
The KB has a self contained oil system, can support higher HP than the Maggie for future up grades, looks cool and the kit comes with a new hood for 6,500 bucks.
The STS system looks pretty good other than a complicated install and lots of plumbing and costs a little more just over 7K.
One other big consideration I live at 5,500 ft...
Thanks
Chris 2000 C5 convert.

 

Doug

in most things I feel that you are dead on but this statment makes no sense to me. the maggie setup with a bypass does not make any boost under normal driving, it takes close to WOT to make any boost so under crusing conditions I do not notice any of what you are indicating. I realize that you guys make and sell your kits and I feel that they are some of the best choices for FI on the C5 platform, but IMO you are off-base with this statment.

More Than Zero

 

We are all entitled to opinions.

That's mine, and it derives from a lot of experience with driving them.

 

ECS PAXTON NOVI SYSTEM A NO BRAINER once your educated on all facts & especially customer service