METH better than E-85. Dyno comparison INSIDE!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 882
Likes: 2
From: Miami Florida
METH better than E-85. Dyno comparison INSIDE!
Ok guys so I just got my fuel system and converted to e85 for good I though the car would make more power on e85 than on 93+meth. I was wrong. Check out the 2 dyno below and tell me WTF is going on.
Timing is pretty much the same , actually on the e85 tune is 2-3deg higher than on pump meth. I tuned on both setups for MBT.
The e85 is high 11s, the meth tune was mid 11s. It was about 20-30 deg colder when I did the meth tune. I still think there is no reason for me to be loosing 40 whp. and almost 30 Tq
boost is pretty much the same on both runs. I am going back pump and meth and see if I get my whp back . Mayb the motors is a bit hurt
meth tune
E-85 tune
Timing is pretty much the same , actually on the e85 tune is 2-3deg higher than on pump meth. I tuned on both setups for MBT.
The e85 is high 11s, the meth tune was mid 11s. It was about 20-30 deg colder when I did the meth tune. I still think there is no reason for me to be loosing 40 whp. and almost 30 Tq
boost is pretty much the same on both runs. I am going back pump and meth and see if I get my whp back . Mayb the motors is a bit hurt
meth tune
E-85 tune
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Can you pull a quick sample of the E85 and see what % ethanol it is? It could be as low as 74% depending on location and not 85%. Spraying alot of 100% meth I think will always get better results than E85 but the keyword is ALOT OF METH.
Last edited by C5blownz06; Apr 19, 2011 at 05:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 882
Likes: 2
From: Miami Florida
yes a calibrated gauge for gasoline. I know some people recommend to run it at high 10s or low 11s on a gas calibrated gauge. But from what I have read everyone is seeing their best power at low 12s. so I went with 11.8 commanded a/f
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,533
Likes: 1
Unless your spraying the house down with meth or only running meth which your not. e85 should and will run cooler creating more power(not a ton though). Just switching to e85 isnt going to give you a lot. The advantage comes into turning up the boost and making some real power because e85 hardly detonates compared to pump and meth.
Where meth and 93 guys are running 18psi or so safely. E85 guys are running 30PSI or so WITHOUT an intercooler. The cooling effects allow you to make more power with more boost not without it.
Where meth and 93 guys are running 18psi or so safely. E85 guys are running 30PSI or so WITHOUT an intercooler. The cooling effects allow you to make more power with more boost not without it.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,797
Likes: 52
From: Boise
Did you tune the timing to maximum brake torque on the E85?
I don't have E85 tuning experience, just know a lot of people running it from when I lived in Colorado. I don't think leaner = meaner on E85. I think it will make more power the more you can throw in there provided it can combust.
Try adding more fuel and timing.
How did you tune for E85? Did you change the stoich ratio or change the IFR tables? The proper way is to change the stoich ratio
I don't have E85 tuning experience, just know a lot of people running it from when I lived in Colorado. I don't think leaner = meaner on E85. I think it will make more power the more you can throw in there provided it can combust.
Try adding more fuel and timing.
How did you tune for E85? Did you change the stoich ratio or change the IFR tables? The proper way is to change the stoich ratio
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,533
Likes: 1
As mentioned before did you test the e85 to see what quality it is? You can get a simple $15 tester online
EDIT: I just read your first post again talking about possibilty of the motor being hurt. Maybe to comp test and a leak down just to double check it? Cant hurt
EDIT: I just read your first post again talking about possibilty of the motor being hurt. Maybe to comp test and a leak down just to double check it? Cant hurt
Last edited by stainless40cal; Apr 20, 2011 at 01:06 AM.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,533
Likes: 1
Put it this way it doesnt give anywhere near the same amount of help that meth does to 93 octane.
The way e85 works and burns is pretty amazing if you look into it. It really keeps detonation it a minimum and its cooling affects are in a whole other world compared to gas. Honestly no need for meth with it
Tech Contributor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 78
From: Forney Texas
So did you simply calibrate the fuel without throwing timing at it or what? You have yet to answer the question. The reason Stainless is asking about the measured content is because the mix is so inconsistent. If you put race fuel in your tank when you're dialed in for pump and don't change anything else, your car will slow down significantly. There is more energy in the fuel, but you have to extract it. It needs more lead time. Even adding nitromethane to your mix will slow the car down unless you tune for it.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 882
Likes: 2
From: Miami Florida
So did you simply calibrate the fuel without throwing timing at it or what? You have yet to answer the question. The reason Stainless is asking about the measured content is because the mix is so inconsistent. If you put race fuel in your tank when you're dialed in for pump and don't change anything else, your car will slow down significantly. There is more energy in the fuel, but you have to extract it. It needs more lead time. Even adding nitromethane to your mix will slow the car down unless you tune for it.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,797
Likes: 52
From: Boise
So what's the update on this? Did you try adding more fuel?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
I don't know why the power with E85 was that much lower, but to see a gain, I think you'd need to up the boost. That's the advantage of E85... that it allows running more boost. Otherwise, it's not that different from putting in race gas and expecting a power increase.
One thing about E85 versus the pump gas with meth:
It doesn't provide the charge density increase from cooling that spraying meth does, all the way from the meth injection point to the cylinder. The cooling benefit of E85 only shows up past the point of the normal injector. The density increase throughout the inlet tract with meth may promote better cylinder filling.
One thing about E85 versus the pump gas with meth:
It doesn't provide the charge density increase from cooling that spraying meth does, all the way from the meth injection point to the cylinder. The cooling benefit of E85 only shows up past the point of the normal injector. The density increase throughout the inlet tract with meth may promote better cylinder filling.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 882
Likes: 2
From: Miami Florida
well guys I went back to the dyno on the pump and meth tune. So e85 is not that bad at all It actually made more power than meth+pump. I think there is something wrong with my motor probably because with pump meth now it only made 570/460 ... I might have a dead cyl or something like that. I will post the dyno later this week so you guys can see the diff. Only thing I changed was the fuel, same dyno and weather conditions.