Direct Port Dissaster!
Racer
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 354
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From: LaHabra Hts. CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
From what I understand you don't want to use moly rings in a nitrous application, because when it detonates (and its going to because is its inevitable with NOS) it knocks the moly off the rings which will cause compression loss and then eventually oil blow by. Then whoever told Bruce it took 3,000 miles to seat the rings is misinformed, its usually right away like in the first hours of the break in. :nono:
[Modified by Sinco, 6:43 AM 5/3/2003]
[Modified by Sinco, 6:43 AM 5/3/2003]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,179
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From: Honolulu Hawaii
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
Sorry to read about your plight Bruce. I hope everything works out for the best for everyone.
Sounds like ATI time to me!!
:cheers:
Sounds like ATI time to me!!
:cheers:
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
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From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
I'm not crazy enough to run a 300 shot but I'm thinking a 200 shot direct port with an MMS forged bottom end will make for a 9 second slip! :steering: I've already run 10.6 with their 396 all bore motor, on motor alone.
Bruce
[Modified by bruce1, 11:22 PM 5/4/2003]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
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From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
Also not to start a fight or anything but I don't see how an NX solenoid getting stuck open is an installation issue. Seems like an NX issue to me? Be thankful it wasn't the N2O solenoid!!
It was not making a tight seal.
Bruce
[Modified by bruce1, 11:18 PM 5/4/2003]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
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From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
Be thankful it wasn't the N2O solenoid!!
Thanks for your concern.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
Dear Terry, I agree, I was crazy to listen to MMS in thinking their bottm end could hold up to a 300 shot..this is because they in fact are liars. As their web site states false performance claims. As they sold me on these false claims, MMS also has turned my car into re-building project.
Their workmanship on my car borderlines pathetic. Inexperience, false misleading performance claims and sloopy workmanship are their most obvious qualities
Their workmanship on my car borderlines pathetic. Inexperience, false misleading performance claims and sloopy workmanship are their most obvious qualities
The reason I'm pressing you is that I've personally had MMS build me 4 complete motors and I've been very satisfied with their workmanship and performance. Also I'm wondering if you haven't activated the nitrous system yet how do you know their bottom end won't hold up?
A 300 shot is a pretty serious amount of nitrous. I'm not sure how much you know about these cars and large amounts of juice, but at that level there are concerns well beyond the simple shortblock assembly. Block strength, tranny longevity, torque converter, torque tube, differential, half shafts, etc are all a major concern. I wouldn't expect to be able to make more than 10 passes on ANY 4spd auto trans at that level, and you'd probably have to pull and check your plugs after each run. Here is an example of an MMS car running only a
200 shot direct port:
http://<a href="http://www.ls1tech.c...o=&fpart=1</a>
It runs like 9.3@144. Can you imagine this with another 100hp of juice? lol! Maybe you should dial the juice back down to a reasonable 175-200hp level. Your engine may hold up to a 300 shot but I doubt your car or wallet will! :)
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
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From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
I really like the look of your MMS/NX system. Would you consider selling it?
But I will keep your offer in mind, thanks.
[Modified by bruce1, 8:41 PM 6/8/2003]
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
From: Crown Point IN
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
I've been following your thread bruce and finally decided to chime in. It sucks and I feel bad for ya man. Second kabloom and rite before summer hits. Note to self: Learn how to do it myself, and do it slowly and cautiously!
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
If they would have inspected this solenoid, it would have been replaced, and would have been a non-issue. The seal was damaged, torn on the inside, at the points of contact.
It was not making a tight seal.
This could only have been done while operating the system, impossible to do otherwise.
It was not making a tight seal.
This could only have been done while operating the system, impossible to do otherwise.
Nitrous is very volatile and things can fail at any time, which is why NO sponsors that I know of warranty nitrous motors. What was the nature of your shortblock failure in February? If something happened while on the bottle you should be _VERY_ grateful it was repaired under warranty!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
After spending $14K, on this setup, I am still determined to see it operational. But it needs to be re-plumbed. I have meet with several experienced and technically advanced nitrous people here in San Diego, they have opened my eyes indeed. There are many things in my set up can be improved on.
But I will keep your offer in mind, thanks.
But I will keep your offer in mind, thanks.
BTW MMS did not make the N2O system; NX did. If you don't like it shouldn't you be complaining about NX?
I'm not sure what your goals with the car are, but for a complete motor, juice system, and drivetrain I don't think $14,000 is that steep at all. I've spent a lot more than that building race cars. :eek:
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
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From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
Maybe you can help me with some of these items that need attension.
Several alarm codes, (PCM code P-1870-hc) engine light is constantly going on. One code specifically means, I have been told that the tranny is slipping.
What is your take on that?
Terry, it burns a lot of oil. like 4 quarts in 750 miles, and sounds noisy. Does your motor use this much oil? I am concerned, I was never informed that the car would be going through this much oil.
Terry, what do you recommend?
[Modified by bruce1, 11:25 PM 5/4/2003]
Several alarm codes, (PCM code P-1870-hc) engine light is constantly going on. One code specifically means, I have been told that the tranny is slipping.
What is your take on that?
Terry, it burns a lot of oil. like 4 quarts in 750 miles, and sounds noisy. Does your motor use this much oil? I am concerned, I was never informed that the car would be going through this much oil.
Terry, what do you recommend?
[Modified by bruce1, 11:25 PM 5/4/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
Maybe you can help me with some of these items that need attension.
Several alarm codes, (PCM code P-1870-hc) engine light is constantly going on. One code specifically means, I have been told that the tranny is slipping.
What is your take on that?
Several alarm codes, (PCM code P-1870-hc) engine light is constantly going on. One code specifically means, I have been told that the tranny is slipping.
What is your take on that?
Terry, it burns a lot of oil. like 4 quarts in 750 miles, and sounds noisy. Does your motor use this much oil? I am concerned, I was never informed that the car would be going through this much oil.
Terry, what do you recommend?
Terry, what do you recommend?
Power steering intercooler damaged, smashed, but still functions so far.
Hood liner damage from nitrous rails installed too high.
Unsightly cut outs in plastic area at winshield wipers were added to clear the rails.
Unsightly cut outs in plastic area at winshield wipers were added to clear the rails.
The Fuel line rests on the exhaust system, and gets the fuel hot in route to the motor, at the rear of the car under the back muffler area. Although the line is insulated, it is not held up off the hot exhaust pipe.
Missing bolts on the exhaust system, hanging 1/2" too low.
Burnt out 02 sensors, right bank, fried from the exhaust pipe it was resting on.
Burnt out 02 sensors, right bank, fried from the exhaust pipe it was resting on.
Air conditioner does not blow air into the cabin.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
Terry, it burns a lot of oil. like 4 quarts in 750 miles, and sounds noisy. Does your motor use this much oil? I am concerned, I was never informed that the car would be going through this much oil.
Terry, what do you recommend?
4 quarts per 750 miles seems high, I'd expect around 1qt per 1000 miles. How many miles do you have on the motor? Which weight oil are you using? Forged piston motors are usually a little louder than stock due to piston slap. Do you have a sound recording of the engine so I can hear for myself?
[Modified by bruce1, 11:14 PM 5/4/2003]
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
Inherent in the direct port, most guys remove the hood liner all together. Hey if running a direct port system was an easy bolt on thing everyone would have one. ;)
If the intake is assembled correctly, it can but put together relatively fast.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
Well, because they already blew up the motor on their dyno once. This resulted in them backing off from their attempt to re-tune it for the 300 shot, per their original performance claim, a 300 performance level is what I had purchased, this is what they sold me.
They said they would not go there again, not tune it for 300, because if something could't stand up to the 300 shot, and failed, they did not want to replace it again, Mike said "we would have to talk." if something happened.
Ok, that gave me the creeps.
Ok, that gave me the creeps.
I had asked Mike to review the invoice, to lower it because of the failure to meet the 300 performance claim, he said he would look into it. The result was another $1,500 added to the bill that I had not previously authorized.
So if the nitrous oxide system made the 300hp performance claim, you'd be content? It's well documented that the warranty does not cover nitrous oxide use. If I were MMS I'd just try the 300 shot to make you happy and if the car melted down in the process who cares, that's your problem right? :)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
Bruce here is what the MMS site says:
It says this shortblock (which happens to be the least expensive shortblock they sell) uses parts that will stand up to a 300+shot of nitrous. It doesn't say your nitrous system will make 300hp if you buy this shortblock (that would be silly right?), and it doesn't say that running a 300+shot of nitrous is reliable or prudent in a street car. Again I asked specifically which part failed?
Looking to upgrade your tired motor? Do you want something the will stand up to a 300+shot of nitrous? Have you thought about running more boost but have been worried about putting a hole in a piston
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
This look really impressive Terry.
But please note that it appears that MMS did not do the installation of these components, and they did not install the NOS system either. This guy is on the East Coast
But please note that it appears that MMS did not do the installation of these components, and they did not install the NOS system either. This guy is on the East Coast
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,871
Likes: 0
From: Oceanside, Ca. Ca.
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (Terry Burger)
Bruce here is what the MMS site says:
Looking to upgrade your tired motor? Do you want something the will stand up to a 300+shot of nitrous? Have you thought about running more boost but have been worried about putting a hole in a piston
and it doesn't say that running a 300+shot of nitrous is reliable or prudent in a street car.
Looking to upgrade your tired motor? Do you want something the will stand up to a 300+shot of nitrous? Have you thought about running more boost but have been worried about putting a hole in a piston
and it doesn't say that running a 300+shot of nitrous is reliable or prudent in a street car.
It says":
99 - C5 - Coupe - A4
_
DESCRIPTION:
When it comes to addictions, Bruce takes his vices in the form of gas. N20 to be exact. And he has the appetite of a 70's rockstar. Sucking in 300hp at a time, your sure to see some mid 10 second time slips from this
super clean Corvette.
All this, and he still drives it on a daily basis to work.
[/B]
Again, look at the featured cars on the MMS web site.
[Modified by bruce1, 7:53 PM 5/4/2003]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
I know MMS did not make the NX system. But they sold it to me. They assembled it, in doing so, they take on this responsibility. They cannot continue to blame their shortcomming on their suppliers, on their customers, or on the sport of racing.
Just run a 225 shot and be happy. Trust me when I say your car will melt before you can even use that 300 shot you so deeply want anyway. This is what happens when you get a bunch of guys that know nothing about hot-roding trying to build race cars. ;)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: Simi Valley CA
Re: Direct Port Dissaster! (bruce1)
The popular definition of the word vice is: "An undesirable habit". The featured car paragraph supports my position that running a 300 shot of nitrous is not reliable or prudent.
Terry
Terry