Especially looking to see rollbars that comply with SCCA Solo I.

 

Well this is not my car and I hope the owner doesn't mind if they see it... I snapped it at 21 Century MC a while back. Sorry for the quality... just a crappy cellphone pic.

I doubt this would meet SCCA Solo requirements, but if you look close you'll see this isn't just a set of decorative hoops. It is fully braced with bars behind the waterfall, seat belt attachments, etc. Each hoop had a brace to the rear, and it had door bars (I believe). The toneau was notched slightly, but the setup looked outstanding to me.



I'd love to have one done like it... it's a one off custom built in the DFW area.

 

Due to my extreme height (6'8") I custom made a roll bar that requires the convertible tonneau to be removed while the roll bar is in place. That way my helmet has plenty of clearance from the roll bar, and the bar extends up past the top of my head for rollover protection. The whole set up takes about 10 minutes to put in, or break down and have convertible top use once again.

Some of the "guidelines" that I could not follow per SCCA requirements were four bolts at each mounting point (4 point rollbar). The main hoop has four 10mm bolts (180,000 psi tensile strength allen head bolts) at both ends, but the rear "kicker" braces are simply sandwiched into the frame rails with two of the rear suspension subframe bolts (14mm allthread), one per kicker. It just didn't make sense to drill a bunch of extra holes in the frame of the car to comply with SCCA regulations for a HPDE car.

 

how was your Road Atl. weekend?

 

Road Atlanta was great, well until the end of the first session. When I came off the track, Panoz told me (after three years of running there) that my hardtop was no longer accecptable and I needed to install a rollbar...minimum 3-point & welded to the frame. So, that's the reason for this thread. Since I am going to install a rollbar, I wanted to see if I could get one that will allow me to run HPDE too. With your set-up, do you?

 

Interesting. That would work for Road Atlanta, but not HPDE.

 

Like 2000BSME I'm tall - Not 6'8", but 6'4" and long-waisted, so I sit very tall in a seat. The only rollbar on the market that I could find was the Wolfe Racecraft bar. With it you lose 2" of seat travel, and for me the bar bangs up against my head just sitting in the car without a helmet. Plus my head sticks up about 2" higher than the bar -- So effectively NO protection! . . . Probably actually ADDS a safety hazard!

So I built my own also. Mine sits back away from the driver and sits as high as you can get and still fit under the top when its up. Also, it's high enough that it does no restrict rearward vision at all. To do that and get enough rearward position and height on it, I had to mount it so that it swings forward to allow the top to go up and down, and then it locks into place. Otherwise the movement arc of the top severely limits the height and rearward position.

I built a locking lever/plate system from 1/4" steel plate with a 5/8" hardened steel locking pin on each side. It's hinged on 1/2" grade-8 bolts. The 1/4" steel base plates (2 of them - each 6" wide) wrap around the steel ridge of the body pan that runs the width of the car just behind the seats (one base plate behind the each of the seats). The base plates are then welded into that steel ridge.

The rollbar is also stabilized by a locking bar and pin anchored with the upper seat belt mounts.

The rollbar itself is built from 2" tubing (.120 wall thickness). The rollbar is easily removable by simply pulling the hinge bolts out. The base plates remain in the car, but can easily be covered with a section of carpet placed over the ridge.

And as you can see in some of the pics, there is also a front brace bar. This bar installs/removes easily with just two bolts. I tend to leave it off for street use, and put it in for any track use (though I've since bought a daily driver/track C5, so I don't track this car anymore). So without the front brace it actually has 4 mounting points (2 @ the base plates + 2 @ the upper seat belt mounts). The front brace adds a 5th mounting point and a very significant amount of structural stability.

I'm sure this by no means meets any formal racing regulations. Thoug it's mor ethan enough to pass any HPDE or track day events. But I figure that it's about the best balance I can achieve between safety and preservation of daily use and function. It only adds less than a minute to putting the top up or down. It's far enough from my head to not be a hazard in itself. It's high enough to actually provide some protection for me.

BTW - The guy in the seat is not me - It's my son (he's 6'2").

Dave

 

Thanks. Have you run an HPDE? I was told that it needed to comply with SCCA Solo I to attend an HPDE.

 

Well, I've done a few road course days at Button Willow and Reno-Fernley and both had a "self-tech" process. So as long as they see a rollbar, they're happy. It really depends on the organizations running the event. I've run in events run by Speed Ventures and T.E.A.M.

I guess these may not be official "HPDEs". And I'm not running in any officially sanctioned competitive events for points or anything. At this point I'm just working on getting some seat time. I'm out to improve my track skills and to have a bunch of fun. Doubt I'll ever get into the whole points and offical competition thing. So this works for me.

If someone is going to get into sanctioned competitions, then you're looking at spending something upwards of $4,000+for a custom rollbar/cage to meet specs. Wolfe Racecraft sells kits, but they are just that - KITS! Just cut up sections of tubing that need to be lined up properly,welded together, and mounted to the chassis. The welding and mounting labor is the BIG expense.

Real racing gets VERY expensive. At this point I figure a track day is usually about $200/day to $250/day for the track fees, plus fuel ($50+), oil & filter ($40), tire wear ($50+) and brake wear ($50), plus sometimes a hotel. So a day at the track, just for pleasure (not racing), can conservatively run about $450+, and that's if you don't break anything. And I often take my son or a friend and let them drive in their own session, and just have them cover their track fee. So with the added fuel, tires and brakes, I'm looking at about $600+/day. I need a LOT more of those track days before it would make any sense for me to go out and actually compete with guys who have a whole lot more seat time and probably more disposable cash than I do. But . . . maybe someday???

Dave

 

that sounds like something Panoz-organizer specific. Each event coordinator/manager will tell you something different. I went to an HPDE a few months ago, after I had built my bar per the organizers general guidelines, and there was no issue whatsoever. It's probably a crapshot whether or not you get any flack over it. Make it sturdy and strong so you can argue your point if you get any flack. I went so far as to get naked framed c5 photographs of the coupe (to show how little structure a coupe had in comparison to my rollbar), and vert rollover pictures without a rollbar (no windshield pillar structural breakage WITHOUT a rollbar), and my Helm's manual (for exact bolt in location views), so I could argue the safety/strength standpoint with any "official" who wanted to say that my rollbar may not be safe.

 

Actually it came from an HPDE coordinator here on the Forum. Panoz is not as restrictive. They allow factory installed hoops behind the seat. I pointed out to the Panoz rep that there were people driving on the track that the hoops were 6" lower than their head.

Maybe I have been running too fast and was drawing too much attention. When they told me I couldn't run any more on Saturday, I had just passed 6 cars including a Porsche Turbo, a couple of Z06's, and a Viper...all in just two laps.

 

That's what I am doing now. Running "Open Track" at Road Atlanta every time they have it. But since I need a rolbar for that, I figured I would try to comply with the requirements for HDPE.

 

Sweet pic... I've heard barber motorsports park is amazing... thos sculptures are cool.

 

The event insurance company for almost all HPDEs is KandK Motorsports Insuracne. They strongly request the converabe roll bar to be as close to SCCA SOLO I as possible. This provides a consistant standard for clubs.

Most road racing circutes also use this standard.

Whether each club uses that guid or not is up to that club. That being said safety is nothing to push aside and should not be done half arz.

Interesting part is rolling over is not really the problem, but side impect into tire walls and armco is.


Novice drivers want HP and Speed.
Experienced drivers want safty and consistancy, then speed comes.

 

I agree with that! When I first started running track three years ago, speed was the thing and yet most people were turning in faster lap times. Now, catching the apexs, smooth cornering, and running consistant...I typically run one of the fastest lap times.

I am working with Mike Norris to design a rollbar that will hopefully achieve SCCA requirements. I really want to run HPDE so I can improve my driving skills.

I really wish I could afford a track car, but that is at least two years away.

 

BINGO - WE HAVE A WINNER HERE

Also an aftermarkt seat, sparko evo or something like that will lower you too the floor. This helps give you better head clearance.

Once you have the seat installed in the proper place, it is 15 to install and replace with the stock seat.

 

Thanks!