Column Lock DISASTER AVOIDED!!! A close Call...
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: Manheim PA
Originally Posted by torchredfrc
Sorry, I suffered a compression fracture in T3-5 (Thorasic spine - 3 vertabrae) and I still installed my CLB in under 45 minutes. My car is lowered, it's a royal pain to crawl under and especially to work in the interior. The CLB is the easiest and cheapest modification I have ever done to my car. I've installed everything from headers, cam, stereo, redone the seats, and much of it more than one time. Back, neck, or money problems all being the same to me. This is 100% a rip off.
On a side note, I'm going to gracefully unsubscribe from this thread at this time. I wish you and your customers the best. Enjoy your pizza.
On a side note, I'm going to gracefully unsubscribe from this thread at this time. I wish you and your customers the best. Enjoy your pizza.
Not all humans compute doing tasks the same way. Its all a choice in who you want to do the work.
This situation is No different than making your VCR stop blinking 12:00, some people can do it, some people call the repair guy. Now the VCR repair guy will charge you 50bux and I think that’s a rip off plus you won't even get free pizza and drinks.
Good luck chuck! and good luck to those who do this repair on their own.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,955
Likes: 161
From: PNW
Originally Posted by Chuck CoW
While I don't expect any of you to know how the system works.....Please understand that I DO KNOW HOW IT WORKS.....and the advice I'm offering is correct....
Originally Posted by Chuck CoW
There is a parameter in the computer which partially disables the system....additionally, "reprogramming the BCM is always a good move....in doing so you will have GM's latest BCM program which is never a bad thing.....You might actually get other benefits in other areas from it.....
Just so you are aware...the BCM is responsible for controlling the Column Lock. (hence the need for a program change) When the BCM commands the lock motor to lock the column, the shaft extends through the lock plate....and trips a switch on the other side to tell the BCM that the lock is complete and secure....
When the driver attempts to start the car by turning the key, the BCM retracts the shaft and at that time the switch opens...(or should)
Sometimes the switch fails to open and even though the BCM commands the motor to retract, if the switch sticks closed the BCM "thinks" the column is still locked when in fact it isn't. Then you get the message "pull key wait 10 seconds"....The BCM attempts the LOCK/UNLOCK again in hopes that it will work on the second attempt...
When it fails, the engine is still running and when the driver attempts to move the vehicle more than 2 MPH the fuel pump shuts off to prevent the car from driving while it "thinks" the column is still locked.
So, now..even though your column is TOTALLY UNLOCKED you are still stuck right where you are...
As much as the CLB is a great fix...it does not work every time by itself. Most of the time..YES..but not every time. Some of you will get lucky....the others will get towed....
Just so you are aware...the BCM is responsible for controlling the Column Lock. (hence the need for a program change) When the BCM commands the lock motor to lock the column, the shaft extends through the lock plate....and trips a switch on the other side to tell the BCM that the lock is complete and secure....
When the driver attempts to start the car by turning the key, the BCM retracts the shaft and at that time the switch opens...(or should)
Sometimes the switch fails to open and even though the BCM commands the motor to retract, if the switch sticks closed the BCM "thinks" the column is still locked when in fact it isn't. Then you get the message "pull key wait 10 seconds"....The BCM attempts the LOCK/UNLOCK again in hopes that it will work on the second attempt...
When it fails, the engine is still running and when the driver attempts to move the vehicle more than 2 MPH the fuel pump shuts off to prevent the car from driving while it "thinks" the column is still locked.
So, now..even though your column is TOTALLY UNLOCKED you are still stuck right where you are...
As much as the CLB is a great fix...it does not work every time by itself. Most of the time..YES..but not every time. Some of you will get lucky....the others will get towed....
Once the CLB kit is installed properly there is no need to reprogram anything associated with he column lock system. As you have heard from many members here, the failure rate on the CLB kit is very rare.
From what I'm gathering from your inputs, it sounds like you are going to reprogram to reverse GM's recall programming (which disables the fuel system if the column is seen as "locked") so that the car can still move if for some reason the BCM detects a false switch state on a failed CLB relay. Correct?
Last edited by ZeeOSix; Oct 13, 2006 at 03:59 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,027
Likes: 0
From: mahopac ny
Why are people getting their underware in such a twist? The guy made an offer, good for some, not so good for others. If you don't like it move on and thanks for trying to protect my wallet. The $150 I just saved will go towards new floor mats with protectors.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 2
From: Bergen County NJ
Originally Posted by SMR 67
Chuck, if your car has never had a tune and has never been to the dealer for the recall (in fact my late build '04 Z06 was not subject to the recall), would any BCM reprograming, tune adjustments or K-Harness removal be required? If so, why?
By the way, I'm by no means bashing you or disputing the value of your offer as others unfortunately have in this thread. I'm honestly trying to determine whether or not this is something worth doing for my particular application (late '04 build not subject to recall , stock tune, GM recall not performed).
It appears that the biggest bang for the buck would be for someone who has had the GM recall performed and needs the CLB, BCM programming and removal of the K-Harness.
For those that have not had the GM recall performed, I gather that in addition to the CLB install, you perform some BCM programing in order to make the package slightly more foolproof, in other words, reduce the chance even further that there may be an issue in the future if one were to simply just install the CLB with no programing.
I'm not sure how the K-Harness fits in since I don't know anything about that.
So I guess what I'm asking now is if I were to bring my car in (and hopefully my setup applies to others who are trying to decide the same thing), what exactly would you do....CLB install and BCM reprogramming? (As well as pizza, drinks and free computer mods
).Thanks
Pro
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
From: Fayetteville AR
Originally Posted by WWK888
Let me get this straight....the CLB sells for $50 and you are charging another $100 to install it???? That install takes anywhere from ten to 30 minutes depending on your skill level of removing screws and panels.
Does not sound like a very good deal to me...
Does not sound like a very good deal to me...
I can buy ALOT of torx bit, beer, and pizza for that much..
Racer
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
From: Scranton Pa.
As someone, new to a C-5, who was bitten very hard by a column lock problem I want to express my regrets about all the negative posts. Maybe the price is not cheap, but this dealer is in the "Beverly Hills" of the east and is giving a very fair and fun event at a price that is just no where near how bad you can get hurt if you don't know about the CLB. It is very easy to say, well you should have or could have or we told you so but most people don't realize how bad a problem this is until it happens. Chevy sucks on this and anyone who trys to help should be thanked, not ridiculed. I wish I only spent $150 to fix mine. As to the posted fixes, crimy, they are 27 pages long and if your car was attemped to be fixed by Chevy, most people have no idea where to start. Anybody who wants to come to my house in the Poconos of NE Penna and fix mine for $150 is more than welcome and I will provide the Pizza and beer, from the acknowledged Pizza capital of the U.S. no less. Especially if you give me a guarentee!!!!
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,639
Likes: 39
From: Winston-Salem North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by steck
the guys offering a service here and everyone bashes him...
well, i've certainly blew a $100.00 way worse than this...
yeah, he's not out there spending his saturday for 'goodwill' purposes,, and he wants to make some money for his time...big deal.
if i lived closer i'd be there and let the experienced guys rip my column apart.
also, if i took a $50.00 CLB to my dealership,,they would find a way to charge $100 for the install,,, if not more, and they'd likely not fix it right, screw something up, and then blame the CLB !!
Has anyone offer to do this for free lately on this board??? (giving up a weekend, buy everyone drinks and pizza, and spend the day on your back awkwardly hanging out of as many cars show up, just because your a nice guy???)...no.
well, i've certainly blew a $100.00 way worse than this...
yeah, he's not out there spending his saturday for 'goodwill' purposes,, and he wants to make some money for his time...big deal.
if i lived closer i'd be there and let the experienced guys rip my column apart.
also, if i took a $50.00 CLB to my dealership,,they would find a way to charge $100 for the install,,, if not more, and they'd likely not fix it right, screw something up, and then blame the CLB !!
Has anyone offer to do this for free lately on this board??? (giving up a weekend, buy everyone drinks and pizza, and spend the day on your back awkwardly hanging out of as many cars show up, just because your a nice guy???)...no.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,405
Likes: 26
From: Whippany NJ
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Originally Posted by Chuck CoW
Here is some useful information form GM's website....
For MN6 & MN12 cars only:
1997
Reprogram Only
1998 built through 5/25/98
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was performed)
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was not performed)
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was performed
Reprogram Only
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was not performed
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
2001-2004
Reprogram Only
For A4 cars only:
1997-2000 A4's
Install wire kit (Harness K), remove and discard lock plate, install the "cam orientation plate" where the lock plate previously resided. No BCM flash required.
2001-2004 A4's
No Change Required - they didn't install the Electric Column Lock (ECL) on those years, in the U.S., after experiencing so many problems.
For those who are unsure.....The above information should be helpfull.....DESPITE what GM thinks you should do, obviously they don't tell you to instal something aftermarket.....But, you should.
Please call me if you have any futher questions.....
Chuck CoW
For MN6 & MN12 cars only:
1997
Reprogram Only
1998 built through 5/25/98
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was performed)
Reprogram Only
1998 built on or after 5/28/98 (CSC 01044 was not performed)
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was performed
Reprogram Only
1999-2000 and CSC 01044 or TSC 01--02-36-008 was not performed
Install wire kit (part#88952428) and reprogram
2001-2004
Reprogram Only
For A4 cars only:
1997-2000 A4's
Install wire kit (Harness K), remove and discard lock plate, install the "cam orientation plate" where the lock plate previously resided. No BCM flash required.
2001-2004 A4's
No Change Required - they didn't install the Electric Column Lock (ECL) on those years, in the U.S., after experiencing so many problems.
For those who are unsure.....The above information should be helpfull.....DESPITE what GM thinks you should do, obviously they don't tell you to instal something aftermarket.....But, you should.
Please call me if you have any futher questions.....
Chuck CoW
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Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,792
Likes: 255
From: Ossining New York
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
That's what I was thinking!
Originally Posted by Ikester
Heres my .02......It sounds like if the all of the above GM recalls were performed on a vette, your service is probably the only way to get out of all of that junk so that you can install a CLB without further headaches. Your price is well justified for that situation.
Smart man! You only appreciate what I'm doing when you know what's involved.
And you only appreciate the price once you've been burned....Hopefully that dosen't happen.....
That's what I'm, trying to do here....
Unfortunately, some of these guys don't seem to understand that I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT THE CLB's ARE FAULTY OR DEFECTIVE or THAT THERE ARE BAD ONES OUT THERE. It is a great product.
What I'm trying to sink in is that there are ADDITIONAL things I can do to the car to make the repair even more reliable. Also, I want people to understand that although the CLB by itself DOES solve some peoples problem, there are cars that WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM THE CLB IF SOME OF THE DEALER FIXES HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED ALREADY. They must be reversed first.
KNOWLEDGE is KING... A little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands!
Chuck CoW
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,058
Likes: 1,265
From: Virginia
St. Jude Donor '11
Originally Posted by Chuck CoW
Smart man! You only appreciate what I'm doing when you know what's involved.
And you only appreciate the price once you've been burned....Hopefully that dosen't happen.....
That's what I'm, trying to do here....
Unfortunately, some of these guys don't seem to understand that I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT THE CLB's ARE FAULTY OR DEFECTIVE or THAT THERE ARE BAD ONES OUT THERE. It is a great product.
What I'm trying to sink in is that there are ADDITIONAL things I can do to the car to make the repair even more reliable. Also, I want people to understand that although the CLB by itself DOES solve some peoples problem, there are cars that WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM THE CLB IF SOME OF THE DEALER FIXES HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED ALREADY. They must be reversed first.
KNOWLEDGE is KING... A little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands!
Chuck CoW
And you only appreciate the price once you've been burned....Hopefully that dosen't happen.....
That's what I'm, trying to do here....
Unfortunately, some of these guys don't seem to understand that I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT THE CLB's ARE FAULTY OR DEFECTIVE or THAT THERE ARE BAD ONES OUT THERE. It is a great product.
What I'm trying to sink in is that there are ADDITIONAL things I can do to the car to make the repair even more reliable. Also, I want people to understand that although the CLB by itself DOES solve some peoples problem, there are cars that WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM THE CLB IF SOME OF THE DEALER FIXES HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED ALREADY. They must be reversed first.
KNOWLEDGE is KING... A little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands!
Chuck CoW
)...Ignore the bashers and carry on...I hope you have great success with the great service you are providing many Corvette owners(that are not mechanics).BTW...isn't entering someones thread and bashing them ...against forum rules?
Oh BTW...forgot to mention about the pizza and beer...great idea!
Last edited by Yello95; Oct 13, 2006 at 10:02 PM.
