Thanks. I get tired of all the nay sayers. Do you like Blackstone or do you have another lab source for analysis? Don

 

Blackstone is a great choice, they probably do more analysis than anyone in the US, and are very consistent with a good turnaround time too.

In Canada, I use Wearcheck though since their lab is a 15min drive from my house, and the turnaround time for me is obviously very fast (I've often gotten results back the same day!)

 

Wow that is a nice resource to have close by.

 

Here are two used oil analysis reports on customer cars of mine who are also fellow forum members, one for the Series 2000 0w30 and one for the SAE 10w30:
Used Oil Analysis Comparison: German Castrol 0w30 vs AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30
Corvette C5 Used Oil Analysis Report – AMSOIL SAE Synthetic 10w30

As for the discussions above on API certification, the XL line and warranty claims, here's my two cents... okay... maybe its a quarter...

An API (American Petroleum Institute) license indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench, physical, chemical and engine tests. These tests were selected and minimum performance standards were set by the API Lubricants Committee to address specific areas such as engine wear, deposits, fuel economy, emissions, etc. The committee is comprised of representatives from automobile, oil and additive companies. The current specification is SM/GF-4 for gasoline engines and CI-4 Plus for severe-duty diesel engine service and CF for indirect injected diesel engine service.

Costs

The cost for running a test program for a single fuel efficient passenger car motor oil formulation is from $230,000 to $350,000, depending on if the formula passes the tests the first time through or requires multiple test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average (testing costs for heavy-duty diesel are running from $750,000 to $1,000,000). Once that testing is complete and the formula has passed all of the minimum requirements, it can be licensed for $1050 per year for non-members and $850 per year for members. There is also a royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over one million. The length of time between new specifications is now approximately 2 to 3 years, which does not allow a great deal of time to recover testing costs, especially for low volume companies like AMSOIL. These API licensing costs can be more easily aborbed by larger volume companies like Exxon-Mobil.

Who Licenses What Formulas?

Additive companies, such as Lubrizol, Afton, Infineum and Oronite, develop licensed formulas that they offer to oil companies to re-license. It is inexpensive to re-license one of these formulas, and the majority of oil companies choose to do this to avoid the costs associated with testing. This lowers the value of engines oils as the same chemistry is being sold under many brand names. All lubricant formulas from AMSOIL INC. are unique and proprietary.

Flexibility In Manufacturing An API Licensed Formula

API licensing was originally developed for mineral based oils, and it affords these oils more flexibility than synthetic oils.

Mineral oils comprised of Group I and Group II petroleum basestocks may use a simple program called base stock interchange for added flexibility in manufacturing and purchasing. Interchange means that by completing the proper paperwork and running a few minor tests an oil company can choose to buy these petroleum basestocks from many different suppliers. This ensures adequate supply and competitive pricing. However, Group III and Group V base stocks are supplier specific and base stock interchange is not allowed. For example, if a formula was tested with an ester (Group V) base stock from a specific supplier, then only that supplier’s ester can be used. Complete engine testing would be required to use that exact same ester from another supplier and is not performed because of the associated costs. This inflexibility makes price negotiations with synthetic base stock suppliers very difficult and it increases business risk. Supply disruptions from only one source could shut down production.

Finally, there is a rule for substitutions in the CMA (Chemical Manufacturers Association) code of practice that allows a small degree of flexibility for all formulas. It allows a company to make changes of certain components in the formula with limited testing and paperwork requirements, provided the additives are at the same or higher concentration.

Key Limitations For API Licensed Formulas

Phosphorous content - .06% minimum to .08% maximum
(API SM; 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 viscosity grades, only)

NOACK volatility - 15% maximum

The prevalent sources of phosphorous in motor oils are additives called zinc dithiophosphates (ZDPs). These versatile additives contribute to reduced oxidation, corrosion and wear. The automobile manufacturers, however, have demanded that lubricants contain a maximum of only 0.08% phosphorous. Their reason is some manufacturers believe higher phosphorous content levels will poison the catalytic converters on their cars before they reach 120,000 miles, which is the number of miles that vehicles are required to pass EPA emission standards. There is not total agreement within the automotive and lubrication industry about whether phosphorous levels over 0.08% actually do harm catalytic converters in the long run. What they have failed to make allowances for is the NOACK volatility of an oil, the volatility of the phosphorus itself, or the oil drain intervals.

The maximum allowable NOACK volatility percentage for the SM/GF-4 passenger car motor oil specification is 15%. Most of AMSOIL motor oils are in the 5% to 8% NOACK volatility range. There is a correlation between NOACK volatility and oil consumption, which ends up in the exhaust gasses. Therefore, higher phosphorous, low volatility oils present no more risk to catalytic converters than low phosphorous oils with higher volatility. This has also been demonstrated for years in actual application through state mandated exhaust gas testing on AMSOIL Dealers' and customers' high mileage vehicles using AMSOIL synthetic motor oils.

Why Some AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Are API Licensed And Some Are Not

1. Full API licensing puts AMSOIL INC. in an inflexible position. Not only would the company find it necessary to buy formula components from specific vendors and be at the mercy of their pricing and availability, they would not be able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2 to 3 years without new testing and the associated costs. To solve this problem, the API must establish base stock interchange guidelines for synthetic basestocks just as they have for other basestocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.

2. Full API licensing would impose strict phosphorous limitations on motor oils. AMSOIL INC. disagrees with this limitation and feels strongly that consumers benefit from long drain, low volatility oils that pose no threat to catalytic converters. To solve this issue, the API and vehicle manufacturers must develop tests and make exceptions for high phosphorus, long drain interval, low volatility oils.


Warranties And API Licensed Motor Oils
Fortunately, the law does not allow manufacturers to "void your warranty" simply because of the brand of oil you use, the specifications it meets or the miles you drive between oil changes. To be specific, they cannot deny fixing your broken radio, faulty valve or cracked piston because you used an AMSOIL non-API licensed motor oil, or because you've gone more than 3000 miles since your last oil change. Denial of warranty coverage must be specifically due to an oil related failure. If any automobile dealership insinuates that your warranty will be void if you use AMSOIL products or utilize extended drain intervals, let AMSOIL INC. know the name of the Dealership, the address, the owner's name and the name of the employee that made this statement.

Mail to:

AMSOIL INC.
Attention: Technical Services Department
AMSOIL Building
Superior, WI 54880

or e-mail to tech@amsoil.com.

Only if the oil is determined to be the direct cause of the engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and in getting the vehicle repaired. That's AMSOIL's pledge to you. AMSOIL INC. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem, AMSOIL will submit a claim with their insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary.

How Does AMSOIL INC. Ensure Their Products Meet Or Exceed The Minimum Specifications Of The Tests Required For API Licensing?

First, AMSOIL INC. works closely with major additive companies to select the top performing, and usually most expensive, passenger car and heavy-duty diesel motor oil additives. These additives have already passed all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or synthetic based formulation. Then they work with the additive company to maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package in selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing additive package for reduced wear and extended drain intervals. This is unlike other oil companies who, because additives are expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives required to meet the minimum API requirements.

They then utilize a blend of synthetic basestocks with known performance characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum basestocks to optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points, deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. They also will utilize a high quality V.I. improver with better viscosity and cleanliness properties. This replaces the inexpensive, low quality V.I. improver used in the API licensed petroleum formula. They do laboratory bench tests before running field tests to verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. They also continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide variety of vehicles all around North America and the World. AMSOIL INC. has been collecting used synthetic oil samples from passenger cars since 1982.

For those that want the piece of mind of using an API licensed oil, AMSOIL's XL line is API Starburst certified. The AMSOIL XL Synthetic 5w30 does meet GM Standard 4718M. Despite the claim above, this is a full synthetic oil. The AMSOIL XL line uses a Group III highly hydroprocessed mineral (Dino) oil basestock, but this basestock is authorized to be called "synthetic" and is used by the vast majority of synthetic oil companies on the market. The AMSOIL SAE and Series 2000 synthetics use a Group IV PAO basestock oil, but they are not labeled to meet API Starburst certification due to the reasons listed above.

 

 

Here we go again. We get like what 1 of these posts every week? Next would be how often do you change the oil.

 

Just wondering....how often DO you change your oil??

 

Using the current API standard's requirements on phosperous as an "excuse" to not get API certification is a little bogus as Amsoil didn't get API certification on most of their oils BEFORE the current standard came about.

You also "cry" that Amsoil would be at the mercy of the companies that have gotten their additive packages API approved. I guess it's better for "us" consumers to be at the "mercy" of Amsoil, hoping they aren't screwing us with their high-priced oil that isn't certified by anyone but them!!

I wonder why the following engine manufacturers all say to use API certified oil???

Cat
Cummins
Detroit Diesel
General Motors
Ford
Chrysler
Mercedes
Onan
Briggs & Stratton
John Deere
Case/IH
Navistar
Komatsu
Deutz
Perkins
Honda
Toyota
Mitsubishi
Kohler
Mazda
BMW
Porsche
Volkswagen
Ford/New Holland
Kubota

Must be some reason !!!

 

Amsoil's XL line is fully api certified. Knowing that these oils are certified, and what is used to make them, they can then determine that their other oils surpass API testing. It all comes down to money.

 

Do you think that if you had used some other oil in your motorcycle it would have failed?

The only thing different about Amsoil is their "cult" following, who would likely drink the Cool Aid.

 

This thread reminds me of the saying you can buy better... but you can't pay more......

 

And change over to Redline, real synthetic oil... a well known company among racers...

Also the German made, Castrol is good too... so I've heard but not found in stores..

 

Now I don't care who you are that's funny.

 

Redline is a good synthetic, but uses a fairly pricely Group V ester basestock. I chose not to run Redline not because of the cost, but because of my uncertainty of the long term impacts of the ester basestock on the components particularly in the diff (a matter discussed in the C5 stats thread). FYI, it isn't API Starburst certified either...

The German Castrol is very good as well, but the American made AMSOIL stacks up well with it:
Used Oil Analysis Comparison: German Castrol 0w30 vs AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30